Let's Talk Local Podcast | The Future of Dallas: A City at a Crossroads

00:00

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Dallas is at a crossroads. From the future of city hall to questions surrounding where the Mavericks may ultimately call home, our city is facing some major decisions. And with decisions of this size come big debates about what's best for Dallas. The conversation isn't just about politics or sports. It's about finances, logistics, growth, and the long term vision for the city we all call home.

00:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Today, we're taking a deep dive into what Dallas could look like in the years ahead. What makes the most sense for new city hall? What about the Mavericks? And what would these changes mean for taxpayers, businesses, and the future of Dallas? To help make sense of it all, I'm joined by my friend Elizabeth Saab, an Emmy nominated award winning reporter and extremely savvy strategist who knows Dallas inside and out.

00:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Together, we'll break down the headlines, explore the possibilities, and discuss what these pivotal decisions could mean for the future of our city. Elizabeth. Sarah. Oh, I'm so happy you're here.

01:05

Elizabeth Saab

Thank you for having me. This is really a treat.

01:08

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Well, here's the thing. I literally thought that I was twisting your arm to be here, but I'm glad that I'm not. You are this brilliant strategic woman that is you operate a lot behind the scenes, but you are a real power player. You always have been. You're NBA, you know, Emmy award winning journalist, which I didn't know.

01:30

Elizabeth Saab

Nominated. Or nominated. Yes. But it but it's an honor. Yes.

01:34

Elizabeth Saab

It is. Was a very Anyhow. Was a passion project,

01:36

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

by But, the yes. And so you are here, and I'm I'm grateful to you for being here today because you know the ins and outs of business, civic leadership, everything that's orchestrated across the city in in such ways that most people don't. So you being here is going to shed some really interesting light on some very interesting conversations.

01:56

Elizabeth Saab

Thanks. Well, I have to tell you, I appreciate how much you care about our city and just governance in general. And it's really hard sometimes to cut through a lot of the things that, you know, are above anybody's interest because it's a lot of it's inside baseball, and you do a great job of breaking those things down. So I'm really this is I I really am so thrilled. So thank you.

02:20

Elizabeth Saab

You're very welcome.

02:22

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

First things first, kind of relating to your background just a little bit. You have really maintained your career by assisting a lot of influential business persons, although you are an influential business person yourself. You operate in this capacity. But can you tell our viewers and listeners what some of the largest misconceptions about Dallas moving the needle and getting things done is today in your particular landscape?

02:53

Elizabeth Saab

So first of all, I appreciate you saying that I'm influential. I don't I don't know that I don't know that I wanna have that quote moniker. I will tell you, I started my love of civic engagement at 12 years old. When I lived in New Orleans, my mom and dad were really engaged locally in revitalization of downtown. They were engaged in our city council.

03:15

Elizabeth Saab

My mom is very much one of those people that if you want to see the change, you have to be the change. And so when we moved to Dallas, when I was in high school, I stayed engaged. I was very fortunate to have the opportunity to volunteer at St. Philip's. Today, Terry Flowers remains one of my greatest mentors.

03:35

Elizabeth Saab

And it ties back to Civic, because he really wanted to transform that neighborhood and create a community of active people that could live and be part of their community from a lot of different ways civically, making the community safer, more economically viable for that community. And then I went away to college, and I was president of my class. And I interned in Washington, DC, and came back to Dallas for a little bit, left and went to LA. Then I went to New York where I was a reporter. Went back to Austin where I was a reporter there, but

04:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh, Okay.

04:13

Elizabeth Saab

I covered the legislature.

04:14

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh, right.

04:15

Elizabeth Saab

And I covered local politics. And so that was something that I was really passionate about, and had the opportunity to come back to Dallas, and again, work in the public sector for the DA. And then I went to work for the city. And to be honest with you, it was eye opening to work in the city. Because here I was used to working in the DA's office, which is very focused on what it's focused on, or federal politics where you know when you get there, it's just it is what it is, and it's a it's a wheel that's going to turn really slowly.

04:49

Elizabeth Saab

And one of the misconceptions, I think, that I had going to city hall was because I was in my local city government. I had not realized just how much Dallas had grown. Because I was so insular. Right? And because it's so grown, that means our budget grew, our system got bigger in terms of how many people were there, how much responsibility we had.

05:14

Elizabeth Saab

And then I got my MBA, and I left and went to McKinsey. And I'm going share something really personal with you. My little sister actually passed away when I was I had just left McKinsey. And I took a year off and really wasn't sure what I wanted to do, because I've always been entrepreneurial. I love the business sector.

05:35

Elizabeth Saab

I really do. I'm just driven by that for some reason. And the city manager at the time was leaving. And the deputy chief of staff, Kimberly Bizer Tolbert, had just been voted to be the interim city manager. And I've known her for a really long time.

05:54

Elizabeth Saab

And I believe in her. And I'm not just saying that because I worked inside City Hall. I'm saying that because she is a woman who is an entrepreneur. She is driven, and driven more so to make the city a better place. And so I went to support her in her interim transition.

06:13

Elizabeth Saab

And I will tell you what was remarkable about that was that we had a real opportunity to drive some operational change within the city, and kind of look at the house. And how is the house built? And how do we fix the house inside so that we can open it up to guests. And I think that some of the things that we, as a city, struggle with because you have 15 council members. That's one vote for everything.

06:42

Elizabeth Saab

And so if you're the CEO and I know everybody says, oh, well, you can't compare the city of Dallas or any municipality to a business. But it is Because City it manager, it's the CEO. It has customers. Yep. And the reality is that the city's budget is larger than a lot of companies.

06:59

Elizabeth Saab

And it's $5,000,000,000 And at the end of the day, the city manager is the CEO. And your 15 people are board members. And the difference between city hall, which I find troubling sometimes, is that you don't really have a chairman of the board. Your chair, if you will, the mayor, is one vote. And so it makes it nearly impossible, in my opinion and everybody can disagree, this is just me it makes it hard for the city manager to run the city and get her eight votes, or his eight votes, to get whatever it is that needs to be across the finish line, or a 10 vote if it's a super majority.

07:43

Elizabeth Saab

And then guess what? At the same time, if you have some of those people that don't agree, at least five, and they really don't like the decision, then they can go get a five signature memo That's and start to question your job. And so that really was eye opening to me in city government. And I have to say, I have a lot of respect for people across the country that choose to be city managers in this type of environment. Because we are living in a world where, A, everything is so polarized, one way or the other.

08:19

Elizabeth Saab

And B, the loudest voices win. And C, we often find ourselves in politicized, highly emotionally charged environments. And when you have 15 council members, 14 of whom represent their own districts, to me, from my just vantage point, it's harder for those council members to see the greater good of the city because they're so focused on their own districts and their own pet projects. And I don't mean to talk forever about this, but if I could share just one example of that. You've got a park board that voted to close down some pools that were just never going to be repaired.

09:05

Elizabeth Saab

And not only were they not going to be repaired, they didn't have the number of people going to those pools to warrant them being repaired and keeping them open, Okay? That was the Park Board that also reports to the city council that said, let's do it. Well, the city has to find ways to save money. And so when that was before the council, the people in those districts that would have been affected by it were not supportive necessarily of of closing those pools. And so it becomes inside city hall, and it's so inside baseball, but it becomes what are the priorities?

09:43

Elizabeth Saab

Because our taxpayers are telling us public safety, infrastructure, transportation. I mean, these are real things that voters are telling us that are important, but then we get engaged in these outside conversations that sometimes city council members can get so myopic about that we're missing the bigger picture of our jobs as public servants is to deliver the core services that our residents are paying for.

10:13

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes. So over to your time spent at the city, you mentioned that you had actually affected some change with the city manager. Can you expand on what some of those changes have been? Because I haven't I mean, clearly, we're still in a weak mural system. So what changes did you help implement, if any?

10:35

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And now you and I had discussed this post by Carol Mendelson. If you remember what that was, can you elaborate if you agree or disagree with her suggestions?

10:47

Elizabeth Saab

So you want me to talk about interim transition and then the suggestions?

10:50

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Your changes and the suggestions.

10:53

Elizabeth Saab

City manager Tolbert embarked on her transition to being an interim city manager. She put out a transition plan that was very pointedly tackling some things

11:03

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

11:04

Elizabeth Saab

That really needed to get the house in order. And it was procurement. It was permitting. And it was some things around

11:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Safety.

11:13

Elizabeth Saab

Public safety and just some general things internally that really needed to be looked at in a much harder and deeper way. And so one of the things, I think, that was really successful was bringing in a group of people that were collaborators with the city. They weren't consultants in the traditional sense where they were coming in and getting paid. These were people that volunteered their time to come in to help look at some of these processes and start these strike teams to basically force cross departmental collaboration. And and I wanna just say this.

11:56

Elizabeth Saab

I don't think that the city works in silos because nobody likes each other. I don't think that's it. I think that you've got so many different focus areas. And sometimes, it's hard to be astute to the through lines, if you will. And so if you look at permitting as a great example, You've got the department that is focused on the permit review.

12:21

Elizabeth Saab

But then you've also got these other departments that are engaged in it. And oftentimes, in the past, they were not really coming to the table at the same time to talk about things. And that's not a negative. And it's more about being able to break down silos and create cross departmental collaboration. And city manager Tolbert did a remarkable job of that because she did something that I don't see a lot of people do, which is actually get in there and get in the weeds and work with them to solve those problems.

12:57

Elizabeth Saab

She wasn't sitting in her office all day long, out looking out the window eating bonbons. She was up and down the halls, in these cross departmental collaborative workshops that we had once a month. She was out in the community when I say in the community, in the areas where our team members work and going into those different buildings where they work and talking to them about their issues. I mean, I remember one day and I can't remember exactly what it was, but I remember we were out visiting a team of City of Dallas folks. And somebody said, well, we have an issue with x, y, and z.

13:40

Elizabeth Saab

And because that was on her radar, we were able to get it expedited. I mean, sometimes, I think what happens in these organizations that are this size is that there's not a lot of it seems like it's top down leadership. But what's different about this particular city manager is she understands that it's the people that make our city go. You know? And I think that one could argue, well, is there the right bench of people around this person?

14:15

Elizabeth Saab

Or do we have enough engagement? Or how do we I don't know. I don't have all those answers. But what I do know is that a lot of people wouldn't want the job. And the people that sometimes do get the job are asleep at the wheel.

14:29

Elizabeth Saab

And what you can say about her more than anything is she's not asleep at the wheel. She's saying, we have real problems in this city, And I don't want to finish my time this is my perspective finish my time being city manager and not having made meaningful change. And that change is hard. Change is hard for anyone. And so I think whether it's consolidating an apartment or taking a service and recognizing that the city of Dallas has no business being in that service and outsourcing it.

15:02

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, I think change is just really hard.

15:05

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Can you touch upon the Kara Mendelson comments about the write her suggestions to the system as it exists today? And do you want me to send that text to you so

15:15

Elizabeth Saab

that No. You have love it that we're talking about this because a lot of people have been talking about this over the last couple of weeks. What do we do as a city to create more accountability? And I think that's what everybody is talking about, whether it's strong mayor, ten-four-one, or whatever that one is, or whatever. My perspective, I don't think there should be a strong mayor, in my opinion, at this moment.

15:39

Elizabeth Saab

What I believe is, in my personal opinion, would help us move the ball forward this is not popular, by the way, and it may not be popular is giving the mayor the authority to hire and fire the city manager and having more veto power over the budget. Because I think what you see when you see the budget being developed, it's there. And then once the budget deliberations happen, everybody wants to get their own thing for their own district. That's normal. You're representing your district and your residents.

16:11

Elizabeth Saab

And I think that sometimes, however, that creates a little bit of a I don't want to say power struggle. That's not the right word to use. But I think it creates

16:22

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

There's some cognitive dissonance that

16:25

Elizabeth Saab

would arise. That's great word. In both of their Some type of dissonance. If you look at giving the mayor a little more authority, which is hiring and firing the city manager, taking a deeper dive into the budget, and being able to have that first pass before it goes to the rest of the council, What you're doing is you're creating more accountability.

16:46

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Absolutely.

16:46

Elizabeth Saab

And we have a problem right now because everybody is saying who's accountable for what.

16:53

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

16:54

Elizabeth Saab

What a lot of people don't really understand or recognize, rather it's not that they don't understand, but that they don't recognize is if you look at the full organizational chart of the city, you have the city secretary, the city manager, the city attorney, the city auditor, the Office of Inspector General, and the Park Board all reporting to counsel. They all report to counsel. And if you look at, specifically, the city manager, the city secretary, and the city attorney, those three functions are actually dependent on each other. Because the city manager relies on the city secretary for the agenda posting, etcetera. And so let's just hypothetically say, one or the other is more technologically advanced, and the other doesn't want to be more technologically advanced, which can create some bottlenecks in how city business is done.

17:52

Elizabeth Saab

Well, neither of them are forced to do anything because they report to the city council. If you take the city attorney's office, and the city attorney and the city manager work together very well, by the way. But at the end of the day, the city attorney's job is to advise the council, just like it's the city manager's job to advise the council. And so what do you do if you have two different pieces of advice? Let the council debate that, and then what happens?

18:24

Elizabeth Saab

And so I think it ends up being I think that we have a vacuum of accountability right now. That's right.

18:32

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

No one and everybody is accountable. That's exactly right. So in looking at these suggestions that, let's say, Kara made with the stronger mayor system, what you're kind of suggesting, as I understand it, is a hybrid model of what would be, I think, considered more strong mayor as well.

18:52

Elizabeth Saab

Just a little bit more authority. Because I don't because there's having a, quote, strong mayor changes the whole governance structure.

19:00

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah. It's like Chicago. It's like LA.

19:02

Elizabeth Saab

It ends up being Houston? Right. And so it ends up being I think I think that there's importance around the mayor having more authority with checks and balances, though. And once you have a strong mayor, I'm not sure you really have the checks and balances. And the whole purpose of us having a city council is to help keep those checks and balances.

19:22

Elizabeth Saab

Now some people have argued for the ten-four-one. Not sure that we, as a city, should really be going down that road, because I do think that we could find ourselves unless the lines are completely redrawn, right? Because we don't want to find ourselves in an environment where a lot of these districts that have been historically underchampioned find themselves in that again. I mean, I believe that areas of our city that have been disproportionately affected by growth have been disproportionately affected by that because there's no infrastructure to provide that support. And if we had a mayor that had a little bit more authority, then we could look at ways that we're allocating our budget to ensure that those areas are benefiting from infrastructure needs that could help to drive that growth.

20:21

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, you have to think about, you know, schools don't wanna be down there. Businesses don't wanna move there if we don't have proper infrastructure and public safety. It all starts there. It doesn't start with developers just buying land and holding on to that.

20:34

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So moving over to this next phase that you were just referencing, the developers, you and I have talked extensively about a road map as to how we can determine the people in a ton of these organizations that are actually swimming in the same direction determine who is swimming in the opposite direction. And so what I'll be showing here is an overlay created by Armin that really shows how we can start pulling from different organizations like Dallas Citizens Council, Downtown Dallas Inc, Grow Dallas Together, TRAC, Dallas Regional Chamber, the Metropolitan Civic and Business Association, Greater Dallas Planning Council. And then there's others, right, like Grow Dallas Together. That's Save Dallas.

21:23

Elizabeth Saab

The Grow Dallas Together is a pack.

21:25

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes. Yes. Yes. And so I love that we're gonna talk about those.

21:29

Elizabeth Saab

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

21:29

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yep. Save Dallas City Hall. That's the preservationist group. Yeah. That's right.

21:34

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And then which other? There's there's yes

21:37

Elizabeth Saab

to downtown.

21:37

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes. Say yes So to there are many

21:41

Elizabeth Saab

Umeds of and meds.

21:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah. Yes. So if I'm looking at these organizations, can you explain what role each of these organizations play and how you believe we can all effectively work together more than we are today?

21:58

Elizabeth Saab

There are so many organizations from all sectors Yep. Civic, business, nonprofit, municipal. And we all share a common goal, which is to make Dallas a better That's right. And to make it more to foster its economic growth and to really enhance its social vibrancy across the city. I also think that debate is healthy.

22:24

Elizabeth Saab

And I think how we get there is it's healthy for people to disagree. And how we get there will ultimately everybody has their own idea. Some people believe that it's only through policy. Some people believe that it's only through business leaders taking a stand to actually drive a lot of that change. Some people think that it's all about the nonprofits collaborating together and figuring out how to create a shared services model.

22:50

Elizabeth Saab

Some people believe the city should just do it all, right? In my own research and this is only my opinion I think there's a tremendous model in the Greater Houston Partnership. And that is an organization that has seen all of its different civic organizations come together and have shared goals. Who spearheaded that? That's just a group of different people.

23:15

Elizabeth Saab

It came from the mayor, I believe. And it is the hospitals and the educational institutions. It's the economic development organizations. It's the business community. It's the nonprofit.

23:28

Elizabeth Saab

Everybody puts money into it. And there's a shared set of goals. And the goals are everybody is accountable for their own piece of the pie. And it's clear who has what piece of the pie and how our metrics are measured and what are the metrics for success. And I think that that's one thing that Dallas Dallas has no shortage of people that want to be part of the fabric of the positive change.

23:59

Elizabeth Saab

I think that is one of the greatest things about this city. I know when we moved here when I was in high school, I can speak from being a teenager. Just the sheer welcoming number of people. When I moved away twenty years ago and came back after I had gone in my reporter journey and came back from Austin. I was welcomed with open arms by the people I grew up with, people that I had met, people that, you know, were saying, yes.

24:27

Elizabeth Saab

Please be part of this change. Mhmm. And I think that's the beauty of Dallas is that we collectively want to make it the most vibrant city in America. I think the real question goes back to who's accountable for what, right? And to your point, how do we do that?

24:44

Elizabeth Saab

Whose job and whose responsibility? I think, again, creating an environment where we can have shared responsibility through an organization like a Greater Houston Partnership model would really go a long way to helping our city continue to move in the right direction.

25:04

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Okay. I love that. So today is June 1. And if reports prove true, the Mavericks are leaving downtown for Valley View. I personally believe, again, that asset depreciation will follow downtown.

25:19

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

But I don't know if this is going to happen. Right? These are all whispers in my ear. What do you believe this opportunity could mean for Downtown Dallas if this actually did transpire?

25:36

Elizabeth Saab

So this might not be a popular opinion. Mhmm. But I think that regardless of where they go, downtown has a tremendous opportunity. We have a convention center that is leaving the gate. Mhmm.

25:48

Elizabeth Saab

And I know that there's plenty of retail space and plenty of restaurants, etcetera, but we have an opportunity to create a vibrant downtown. Let's look at City Hall, the building, the land around it, the convention center.

26:03

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

We'll save the city hall combo for later, though.

26:05

Elizabeth Saab

So let but yeah. What I'm saying is is let's just look at the core let me start over. Let's look at the corridor Yes. As a whole. Mhmm.

26:12

Elizabeth Saab

Okay? We and take the building out of the conversation. Yep. We have a convention center that is underway. We've got some real opportunity to reimagine our buildings downtown.

26:23

Elizabeth Saab

Mhmm. We have a lot of land that is ripe for development. We have a lot of developers that own a lot of that land

26:30

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

26:31

Elizabeth Saab

That is ripe for development. And it's almost, in my opinion, incumbent upon them to help come to the table to create this vision without the idea of an arena or not. Whether we have an arena or not, we have to take advantage of an opportunity that we have with a lot of these people already owning the land and asking them to drive it. Look at what happened decades ago in the Lower Greenville area. Mike Avalon bought a lot of that land and took a leap of faith to develop it.

27:03

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, I've lived here since I was 16. I've seen that area be reimagined. If you look at Deep Ellum, the same happened down there. And there was a vision. Somebody bought the land, and they did it.

27:17

Elizabeth Saab

And they made it happen. And I think and look at what Jack Matthews has done over in the Cedars. Southside and Cedarhurst. Think in the Southside area. And I think that we have so many great visionaries for Dallas.

27:33

Elizabeth Saab

And a lot of people say, oh, the big bad businessmen, and the businessmen want to control, and all that stuff. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. I think that we have people that have invested in our city. Whether they're ambitious developers or not, the point is is they took a leap of faith. And they created environments in our city that are driving our tax base, which is supporting the economic vibrancy of our city, which is allowing for us to invest in areas of our city that have largely been underchampioned, that stand to benefit from a lot of this development.

28:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Mhmm. And, again, kind of back over to these people. These people. Yeah. These these people who are working together, but in many instances, some are working against each other.

28:28

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I won't get into why that is or what motives people have, but what opportunity do you believe exists today for Downtown Dallas if the Mavericks should sign to move to Valley View or another location?

28:46

Elizabeth Saab

If the reports are true and the Mavericks end up going to Valley View, what you're doing is opening the door for a downtown that could have a much wider breadth of growth from a soccer field. And and, hey, listen. You can still use the Cotton Bowl. But guess what you could also do downtown? Create soccer pitches for youth soccer teams.

29:10

Elizabeth Saab

A rodeo. And you could create A luxury rodeo experience. A luxury rodeo experience. You could create an outdoor shopping market that ties it to the farmer's Sure. I mean, you've got a lot of opportunity there and a lot of real estate.

29:25

Elizabeth Saab

But here's the catch 22. Who is going to take the leap of faith? Whose responsibility is it to take a leap of faith? It's not the city's. Because the city's responsibility is to invest in core services and maximize the assets that it has to pay for.

29:46

Elizabeth Saab

And that's something that people don't realize, the number of facilities that the city owns. And people can say, oh, well, why is the city in the real estate business to begin with? Well, guess who deserves credit for actually being the first person to ask that question? The city manager. The current city manager is holding our city council to task by saying, y'all are asking this question.

30:10

Elizabeth Saab

Well, y'all are the ones that make the decision on how that money is spent to refurbish the facilities and to own the facilities. Mhmm. And so if it's if we need to unload some of them or find different ways to monetize the assets, that's the city council's responsibility to charge the city manager with that. Because guess what? If she makes that decision all on her own, you're going to have 15 people asking her why she made decisions in the dark.

30:40

Elizabeth Saab

Sure. So the city manager, in our situation, regardless of who it is, is in sort of an untenable position. Because the city manager has the responsibility of managing the facilities, which includes pieces of land that we own downtown, also has the responsibility of balancing a budget, but can't really make decisions to unload certain assets without the full city council or a majority of the vote agreeing.

31:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's wonderful that she is actually inspecting it in that capacity. That's that's great to hear. I wasn't aware of that. But dream with me for a little bit here so we can kind of drill a little bit deeper. So if we look at Dallas just as a whole, we have a large luxury consumer base, significant wealth, hospitality infrastructure.

31:33

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Right? A strong fashion identity, which I know you love fashion. I love fashion. Tell me a little bit about some of your memories growing up in the city with respect to fashion. And because I'm going to be weaving in a comparison between Dallas and Paris in just a few minutes, if you would.

31:53

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Just give me some of your beautiful childhood memories with respect to that.

31:57

Elizabeth Saab

So I have to tell you, a lot of people don't know this, but my grandmother on my dad's side owned a very small department store in Canton, Mississippi.

32:06

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh. And she

32:07

Elizabeth Saab

had the most impeccable fashion sense. And she was a widow at a very young age. And she raised five children in a small town on the salary she made from her department store. Oh my gosh. And talk about a superwoman.

32:25

Elizabeth Saab

Single mom. But she was always dressed impeccably. And we couldn't go to the table without her hair being brushed and dressed. So I've always had sort of a love. And that's how she expressed herself.

32:41

Elizabeth Saab

And I've always had and my mom, she is my mom could wear a paper bag and look fashionable. So I've always had Much like you.

32:53

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

You got it from But

32:54

Elizabeth Saab

I've always loved fashion in general, for whatever it is, whether it's high, low, in between, it doesn't matter. Because it's a way for us to express ourselves. And I will tell you, it's interesting that you talk about a potential fashion, district or a go to place downtown. When I lived in LA, I was there during the first, fashion fashion show, what have you, that LA launched, And Fashion I was a little bit skeptical. Because really, you think about New York and Paris and Milan.

33:32

Elizabeth Saab

But what struck me the most about what LA did is they tapped into their local talent. And so it wasn't necessarily couture. It was their local talent that they were highlighting. And I think that that is something that we, as Dallas, have a real opportunity to do, is to celebrate our local talent. And I know some people could argue, oh, well, we don't have Parsons, and we don't have Sure.

34:00

Elizabeth Saab

All of these amazing institutes. But we do have a school for design here. Yep, we do. And we have an opportunity where we could really drive because Dallas is becoming a fashion It is. Capital.

34:15

Elizabeth Saab

It is. I mean, you're seeing people fly because Dallas is the middle of the country. That's right. And it's a stopping point to get from east to west, west to east internationally. And you're seeing a lot of people come here just to stop off.

34:31

Elizabeth Saab

Whether they're shopping or whether they're coming to eat, or what have you, they're taking a little detour. And they're going to North Park, or the Highland Park Village, or Plano, or I'll tell you this. We had a really good family friend who came into town. She lives in New York, by the way, of all the places in the world. And she and my mom went to the farmer's market, and she bought clothes there.

34:55

Elizabeth Saab

And this is somebody who shops at high end boutiques. And it it's beautiful. It's handmade, and it's beautiful. And it was made by a local artisan, and it's great. And so I think that we have an opportunity to support more of that and to support Dallas as being a cultural destination.

35:19

Elizabeth Saab

And I'm guilty of saying what I'm about to say all the time. What is Dallas that sets us apart? I say it all the time. You've got Fort Worth that's the stockyards. You've got New York that has Broadway.

35:30

Elizabeth Saab

You've got Nashville that has the music scene. You've got Austin that also has a music scene. You've got LA that has Hollywood. I mean, you have so many distinct Detroit Motor City. You've got all of these iconic national landmarks in our country that are destination places for people to go because they want to Florida, Disney World.

35:56

Elizabeth Saab

I've been a bajillion times. Favorite place on Earth. Love it. I don't love anywhere more than I love Disney World. And I'm being honest with you.

36:06

Elizabeth Saab

It's like, what are we going to do to have Dallas as a calling card? And I think to your point, it's our culture. We have such a remarkable culture in Dallas based on all of the different types of people that live here. And we can go back to that initial statement that I made earlier, saying Dallas is one of the most welcoming places in America, because we have such a beautiful breadth of culture and so many different types of culture.

36:40

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

For sure.

36:40

Elizabeth Saab

And every culture here is welcomed. And so I believe that we have an opportunity to create a vision for our city that is going to drive the next forty years. But you know what, Sarah? If we don't create that vision today

36:57

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

36:57

Elizabeth Saab

It's going to be so hard for us Hodgepodge. To solidify our future. That's right. And it all starts with what do we as taxpayers and residents and the business leaders that own the land do to take that leap of faith to drive the vision. Yep.

37:16

Elizabeth Saab

I'm

37:17

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

with you on that. I do like I've gone into detail with you, I do believe that we have the right mix of brilliance, brains, talent, philanthropic heart, and a lot of diversity here. But we truly do have a luxury Texan landscape in Dallas that has not been harnessed, in my opinion. That's why I developed this little Paris' luxury district and cultural district because they do thrive independently from their sports venues. And it would be similar to what Dallas would look like if the Mavs, in fact, did move.

37:57

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So, anyhow, that's just

38:00

Elizabeth Saab

I want I wanna say this. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump in there. I wanna say this because I completely agree. And and here's the thing.

38:07

Elizabeth Saab

I have had the great fortune in my lifetime to see all over the world. Sure. And I've seen all different cultures. And I've also had the great fortune of having parents who have really instilled in me the importance of a work ethic and embracing all different cultures, and also recognizing the responsibility that I have to use my degree, my ability to have lived in Washington, to see all over the world, to really give back, to make my city a better place. And I think that what is missing from this conversation that you actually just opened the door for is if we want to elevate all of the inner champion communities around us and drive infrastructure and drive social vibrancy and drive community development, we have to rethink how we are leveraging our business leaders to put money into our city to actually attract what is coming to Dallas right now

39:15

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

39:16

Elizabeth Saab

Which is those luxury shoppers. It's the people that want to eat in the nice restaurants, etcetera, they will spend. And invest. And what happens when people do that? They turn around, and they invest.

39:29

Elizabeth Saab

And I am telling you, there are enough people that are engaged in this conversation now that it's too ripe for us to pass up. It is. And you know what's really brilliant about all of this? If you talk to the residents in the St. Philip's neighborhood Yeah.

39:52

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, I've seen the transition Yeah. And the transformation. I was there at 16 when there were all of those liquor stores and all of that. Oh, yeah. It not safe for the kids.

40:03

Elizabeth Saab

And the people that were living there were so engaged in their community. And it took people that had a vision that had a vision and a leap of faith. And it was not popular, by the way, for Doctor Flowers to go and force a lot of those liquor stores out of that of the off those corner of the streets. I'm sure. It wasn't necessarily popular for them for him to do some of the things that he did to drive that economic development there.

40:34

Elizabeth Saab

But what he did was preserve the culture of the neighborhood. And I think we are being very shortsighted as a city when we look at downtown, when we look at developing parks. And I will die on this hill, what are we doing as residents and business leaders at saying, well, we're going to develop a park in an area where there's a lot of vacant land and a lot of vacant space, what are we doing to put community development in there and to drive economic development? Because in twenty years, while we're so busy focusing on what team is going where, we've now put a park in a neighborhood that, twenty years later, might have homeless issues, public safety issues, be dangerous for the kids, not support the economic growth of its own community. I mean, we have to take charge.

41:30

Elizabeth Saab

And and I and I'm not trying to be Pollyanna, but we have to be the change that we want to see. Part of the reason I'm an apathetic voter. Yep. I am. Mhmm.

41:39

Elizabeth Saab

I'm fully admitting I am an apathetic voter. Mhmm. Do you want to know why? Because I don't think my vote counts. Yep.

41:45

Elizabeth Saab

And I don't think my voice matters.

41:47

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yep. Yep.

41:48

Elizabeth Saab

So imagine if somebody like me

41:50

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah.

41:51

Elizabeth Saab

That has worked in city hall and has the opportunity to participate in a conversation doesn't feel confident that my vote matters, then what is that saying to everybody else that doesn't think their voice matters either?

42:07

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And I think it would speak to the fact that you're correct, especially with the way that the system operates today. It's not effective. Things have to change. Who do you believe should be responsible for changing the system as it exists today? It has to come from multiple places.

42:29

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Right. Which multiple spaces should it come from?

42:31

Elizabeth Saab

Well, I mean, here's the thing. I think what's, again, not gonna be a popular opinion, but I think that what we've seen is when residents are frustrated enough, they will put something on a ballot

42:43

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Mhmm.

42:44

Elizabeth Saab

And demand the change. And I believe that in the absence of support from the elected body, if the general consensus of our residents is to shift a little bit of this governance structure the way that it might make it more meaningful for us to get things done, And that includes giving the mayor a little bit more authority to compel some real accountability, then why not take it through the residence? And so you've got a lot of people in these articles that are being written or editorials and even in just little groups of conversations talking about this governance change. And I think that we're not going to all agree on what it looks like. I think some people are very dead set on a strong mare.

43:36

Elizabeth Saab

I think some people are very dead set on ten-four. I think that maybe some people agree with what I'm suggesting. I don't know. But I think that what's the most important is there is a through line of the idea that there has to be governance change. That is consistent for the first time in a very long time.

43:58

Elizabeth Saab

And to me, that's positive.

44:00

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

The whole city hall space, if you can, if you have the energy for it to enter into it with me. There are passionate voices, right, advocating for save city hall. Some are saying tear it down. What principles do you believe should be guiding this conversation?

44:20

Elizabeth Saab

Wow. That's a great question. I think we have to look at it from a more pragmatic way. Mhmm. And as an outsider looking in, who, by the way, I am a true preservationist.

44:35

Elizabeth Saab

And if I had enough energy, I would be driving the Save the Kalita Humphreys Theater. It's the only Frank Lloyd Wright theater in America. That's right. And it's also a facility that's been that's the responsibility of the Park Board.

44:50

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes.

44:51

Elizabeth Saab

And we can't even find $5,000,000 to restore that. Talk about a cultural icon that actually could drive some true collaboration amongst our different cultural groups, right, to use that venue. That's my soapbox. That's my next cause. I'm passionate about it.

45:13

Elizabeth Saab

And it's not really just because I'm a fan of Frank Lloyd Wright. It's because of its architectural significance as it relates to what he did. I think when you look at the the, quote, City Hall Building, I think there's two pieces of this. Right? There's the one school thought of the city should have a seat of municipal governance for itself where it's not leasing a building.

45:40

Elizabeth Saab

That's a fair argument. I think there's the other side of it that's become politicized and emotional, which is this thought of I am pay. And I will tell you, as someone who has worked years in that building, two stints, personally, as a team member of the city of Dallas, I did not find it as the best place to work from a work environment. And I don't mean like, oh, because I wanted to work remote. I don't like working remote.

46:14

Elizabeth Saab

But I do want to be in an environment where it's a grind. Working in municipal government is a grind. Mhmm. Oh, yeah. Constantly having everybody coming at you.

46:24

Elizabeth Saab

You're underfunded. Getting yelled at by everybody Exactly. Even if it's inadvertent. Mhmm. And so that kinda takes, you know, a little bit it makes you gee.

46:36

Elizabeth Saab

I just want a happy environment to work in. Like, if I'm gonna be in the middle of something all day every day, I wanna be able to work in an environment where I wanna be in my office. Because I will tell you at city hall, I didn't have the luxury of leaving and working anywhere else and being out in the community. I had to work in the office because everything I was doing was related to city council or what have you. So I think from a team member perspective Mhmm.

47:02

Elizabeth Saab

I didn't find it as the most welcoming work environment. And so there's that. Right? I think from the disco the the conversation around it has really, to me, as an outsider looking in, grown into this. Are we going to knock it down and give it all to the business developers?

47:24

Elizabeth Saab

Or are we going to save it and saddle the taxpayers with the money? Because I think that if we look at it very pragmatically, and let's just say we save it, how are we paying for it? I think that's the number one question. Because whether the city has $30,000,000 of a budget shortfall or not, it still has to pay for, you know, police substations Mhmm. Fire houses.

47:54

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, I went to a fire house one time Mhmm. And their air conditioner had not been fixed in gosh knows how long. It doesn't have anything to do with somebody didn't fix it. It has to do with the fact that the money wasn't there, and they were tenth on the list to get fixed. I mean, if you go to the police stations, you know, substations, until recently, some of them had their gates broken.

48:16

Elizabeth Saab

Mhmm. I mean, I would argue that that's a better use of taxpayer dollars to make sure that the people that are fighting for us, you know, in the streets and the fire and public safety, that we're investing in their safety because they're putting their lives on the line Mhmm. For us, and they don't they don't have to. They're doing it by choice. The city hall building debate, I think, is a very fascinating one because I think it was the perfect storm, to be quite honest with you.

48:46

Elizabeth Saab

I think it was one of those things where the maintenance had been deferred for so long. And council members that are voting no can say all they want, oh, well, we voted to put money in the bond or this, that, and the other. But it doesn't matter. It still wasn't enough. And time and time and time again, the money was taken out of the budget for the maintenance.

49:05

Elizabeth Saab

Mhmm. And I I I understand that there were some repairs done, and I think that's fair. But, hey, I'm one of those people that have been in city hall where if you need to turn on the heat, the rest of the building, it might be hot, and so you're gonna be, you know, sweating to death. Mhmm. Or it's freezing because you can't sacrifice I mean, it it doesn't matter that they did some some, quote, repairs.

49:30

Elizabeth Saab

The repairs that are needed are really significant repairs. And whether we're talking about $300,000,000, Sarah, or a billion

49:39

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Mhmm.

49:39

Elizabeth Saab

How are we going to maintain the building? Mhmm. What what where where is the what are we gonna take a vote of the charter amendments to make, you know, the city put x amount of dollars towards the maintenance of the building? Then what do you do with the rest of the facilities that we own?

49:55

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I have a lot of thoughts. I agree with you about the historical significance and having a preservationist heart. I too have that as well. I mean, dear lord, my home is so old. 1940 build.

50:08

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And, you know, I told Monty, no. We are not tearing this thing down. We are going to make it beautiful even if we have to do it in several stages because it takes so long. Mean, it's going be more expensive to do that anyways. However, looking at the heart or at least the intent that I've read IMP constructed that building with, right, where the government is intended to face its downtown, face its its members and not hide from them to be a very upfront society.

50:44

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Okay. I think that's a beautiful heart, beautiful narrative. And, again, it's something possibly to preserve. I am not a fan of the building. I I am not.

50:53

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

But it doesn't mean that it could be something to be preserved. And so I'm going to kind of act as a devil's advocate here just because I do want the other ideas and thoughts to be represented in this conversation, not because I agree with them, but just from that integrity space. Okay. So there's that, right? If it does have this heart in which it was created and that strong lean forward, I've also been informed that the numbers that have been represented, the 1.1 to 1,400,000,000, are are egregiously overstated that we're looking at numbers more in the ballpark of 75,000,000.

51:34

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So if that does come with them possibly leaving and moving, then you look at, you know, if they go to something like the Hope Building or then that comes with a lease amount, right, let's say of 18.5 to 20,000,000 in a building like that, right, per year. So these costs, I know we're gonna have a better idea this coming Wednesday, so I'll be able to integrate that into this conversation to have hopefully a more honest comparison and look at this. Because from what I've also been told, the staffing there at the building, it's maybe at 30% because a lot of people are still working from home. So if there were asbestos reparations that needed to be completed, you could actually do it in a cost effective manner by siphoning over some people to a few floors or areas and then sequestering off that you know, more difficult or dangerous treatment, which happens all the time in, like, hotel buildings. Like, you don't shut down the hotel.

52:35

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Anyway, so back to this analysis. Right? So there's a financial analysis that has to be completed and an emotional attachment analysis perhaps. And perhaps there needs to be some type of weight assigned to each system to determine what people need to be prioritizing. And I hate to say it, but perhaps that's done by a series of polls.

53:02

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I we don't I don't know if how long we have. How long do we have to make this decision?

53:06

Elizabeth Saab

Well, council, it sounds like, may be doing it in the next few weeks. But I would argue Yep. A couple of things. Yeah, please. One, residents in their what they've told the city and other people have said what's important to them is public safety.

53:23

Elizabeth Saab

Let's go back to that. That's right. Transportation That's right. Infrastructure, core services, right? So clean water.

53:29

Elizabeth Saab

So let's just put that in a box for one second. As it relates to, quote, city hall Yep. The idea of a city hall, I'm in a firm belief that a city government should own the building it's in. Okay. I also believe that because the government belongs to the people, we should be in the community.

53:48

Elizabeth Saab

And there is a school of thought that says, well, if you move services into fragmented areas, you're going to have more silos. I would actually take that a little bit of a step further and say the council offices, the people who are responsible for the water in the particular districts, etcetera, should all house together in our community centers or our libraries. We're already paying for that. We already have fire stations, right? That's bringing the government to the people.

54:21

Elizabeth Saab

Our fire stations now, obviously, that's safety and police substations in those communities. I think there's a case to be made for this has been, like I said, a perfect storm. The building has been deferred maintenance has been mounting on that building forever and ever and ever and ever. Simultaneously, we are building a convention center. Simultaneously, Dallas College is building downtown.

54:52

Elizabeth Saab

So I do think that it begs an opportunity to visit, what do we do with this piece of land where there's been a building for forty seven years, and there's been no economic development? Now, again, it goes back to accountability. Do you hold the developers that own the land around it accountable and say, hey, y'all have sat on this land for a really long time. You've got to invest in some economic development opportunities around the land. And I think that it's a lot more complicated than what a lot I'm sorry.

55:27

Elizabeth Saab

It's lot more complicated than save city hall or do away with it. Because you've got a bunch of land in front of city hall. Nobody knows if that's Parkland. You've got a group of people that are now potentially going to sue the city.

55:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I know it.

55:43

Elizabeth Saab

And they only need to get to two years before the building becomes on the National Historic Preservation Registry. Yep. So the question is, how do we look at what's happening downtown and have a vision for both scenarios? And then I would argue, the people that want to, quote, save downtown save city hall, I excuse would argue the people that, quote, want to save city hall, how often do they come there, number one? Number two, to your point, the building is only 30% occupied.

56:17

Elizabeth Saab

So what do you do with the rest of it? Do you open it up to the potential of a developer leveraging some of the space in it? And if you do, how do you convince a developer to invest the money that it's going to take to shore up the infrastructure? Regardless of what it costs to fix the building or knock it down, money is at play on both sides.

56:41

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's

56:42

Elizabeth Saab

right. So the question is, do we, as taxpayers, end up paying for this through a bond? Because ultimately, that's what's going to happen. That's what's going to happen. And if we do pay for it with a bond, who is going to end up, at the end of the day, in twenty or thirty years, when this potentially happens again with the deferred maintenance, we're going be in the same situation.

57:06

Elizabeth Saab

And so then we have basically told children, hey, you're going to be the one that's footing the bill. And so I think it's I think we've got to take a real hard look at the numbers. I think we've to take emotion out of it. We've got to take politics out of it. We've got to take this idea that developers want to knock it down so that we can have a team be down there.

57:34

Elizabeth Saab

And then that way, they can monetize the land. I mean, I think we have to look at it from your lens, right, about it's got to be about bigger than what is this, quote, team going to do for downtown. It has to be a bigger conversation around, what are we going to do with downtown? Now, I'll tell you the one really remarkable thing that has come out of this from both sides of this argument is people are getting involved in the conversation. And what I love the most is there's a group of people on this Facebook page called Reform Dallas.

58:11

Elizabeth Saab

And they're passionate both sides, on both sides of the conversation. But what I love is there's one or two people in there who's really talking about procedures and governance. And we would have never talked about that before. We would have never talked about how do you sign up to speak at a city council briefing. Yep.

58:34

Elizabeth Saab

How do you what is a supermajority? Who's responsible for filing a memo? Or who's responsible for bringing the vote? How does the briefing work? Whether you agree with take down city hall or save city hall, what has happened here is a genuine conversation amongst people who are equally invested in the health and viability of our city.

59:00

Elizabeth Saab

Are there any conversations on Reformed Dallas about the AECOM numbers that are going to be coming out and how the group was formed? Have any of those conversations transpired?

59:09

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Wait, which group? So there was kind of this third party group that was formed. I don't know if they're entirely disinterested or

59:20

Elizabeth Saab

Are you talking about the new people? The new people that are bringing the briefing? Yes. So I think that was kind of a brilliant move. Right?

59:29

Elizabeth Saab

Because first of all, everybody that's knocking the EDC needs to stop knocking the EDC because that is a taxpayer funded organization Tell

59:38

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

us what that is.

59:38

Elizabeth Saab

That was built the Dallas Economic Development Corporation is a taxpayer funded organization that is designed to focus on supporting economic development Yep.

59:52

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

For our

59:53

Elizabeth Saab

And if we don't do that outside of the city and have a group of people that are doing that full time, we will continue to lose our competitiveness. Because every city has an economic development corporation. And the region does, called the Dallas Regional Chamber. Yes. And so I think that, personally, the Economic Development Corporation gotten it's gotten blown out of proportion because their interests are to drive economic development in the city, and specifically to under championed areas of the city that traditionally have not benefited from economic development.

60:32

Elizabeth Saab

That's right. So there's that piece of the puzzle, right? The Economic Development Corporation was tasked with developing and bringing together a group of experts who are the best in class to do an assessment of city hall. CBRE has been on contract with the city for years. The city hired them, I think, in 2019 don't quote me on that to help with its real estate.

61:01

Elizabeth Saab

So CBRE didn't just come out of the blue because they suddenly have an interest in the city of Dallas. And I think that's getting lost in the conversation. And as far as I've known, and I'm not in the real estate business, if you get a lease or a sale, you get a commission. That is typically how real estate works, if I'm not mistaken. So that, I would imagine, was in the contract from the get go that council signed off on.

61:26

Elizabeth Saab

AECOM is a global infrastructure company. I don't know one major company in the world that has not ever had to pay a fine for something. That doesn't mean that they're not reputable. And I would also argue that AECOM isn't really benefiting that much by being associated with this project. They are a global company that works on projects major, major, major infrastructure projects.

61:55

Elizabeth Saab

That's right. And then the couple of other experts that they brought to the table. That was an independent group of people. They came. They gave the numbers.

62:04

Elizabeth Saab

Great. The council questioned the numbers. And so then the city engaged with a group of people that have worked with the city before and also the economic development department, to do some additional assessment on, if we do the repairs, what does that look like? How do we do that? What does it cost?

62:24

Elizabeth Saab

What are And the so that's what we're going to see at council. We've already seen the first part of that. And then we'll see that the sort of bigger numbers on June 3. But regardless This Wednesday. Regardless of what they're bringing to the table, this group or the previous group, it's still money that you and I have to pay for.

62:43

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right. And people, I'm not sure if they understand that, which is why I asked if it was on reformed Dallas at all. I haven't seen it.

62:49

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, I haven't dug that deep into the weeds on what everybody is talking about. Okay. But I mean, I think that the reality is that regardless of what happens, we have no more time. We are out of time. Yep, we are.

63:06

Elizabeth Saab

If we want to take our city in the right direction and my use of the word right is about creating an economically charged and socially viable city where everyone benefits. The time is to do it now. I

63:27

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

have three questions for you. One. This is kind of how I'm going to wrap it up. Don't kill me. One.

63:34

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I don't believe that I've ever met a person who could go toe to toe in this capacity and add so much additional color into this space. I'd really like for you to consider coming on even for a live, if that's every week or every two weeks, to kind of summarize where we are with Dallas and what we're looking at next and conversations that should be had and really shed light upon. That's one. Two, this is when I said you no, I'll save that one for the last. Two, I know you're already a member of MCBA.

64:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I'd really love for you to join the leadership council there. Three, would you ever consider running for mayor? I want you to run for mayor. Elizabeth, you are positively excellent. I don't know if that's how you ever want to spend your time, but would you consider it?

64:35

Elizabeth Saab

Well, one, thank you. I would love to continue this conversation. Good. I am so passionate about it. Two, it would be an honor.

64:43

Elizabeth Saab

Three, I think that's a very interesting question. One of the reasons why I have struggled in the public sector Yeah. Is because I am very direct about how things are navigated behind the scenes. And I have a lot of opinions about things, but it's also a lot of fact based opinions. That's right.

65:13

Elizabeth Saab

And so I think I've made a lot of people mad. I really have. I've made a lot of people mad on my journey, because I'm just not one of those people that just sits down and takes it. You know? And I think there's two schools of thought to that, right?

65:29

Elizabeth Saab

It's needed. You catch more bees with honey. Mhmm. Right? Or flies with honey.

65:34

Elizabeth Saab

Whatever is it, Which whichever it means that you have to navigate in circles and be delicate around the things that you talk about. But at the same time, I don't think that you can make meaningful change and be meaningful change unless you're bold.

65:56

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah.

65:57

Elizabeth Saab

And being bold carries the risk of upsetting the apple cart. That's right. And I think in a lot of ways, I have upset the apple cart, because I am very convicted about, if you're going to be affiliated with something, own what you're affiliated with. And then try to leverage what you're doing to make it better. You know what I mean?

66:23

Elizabeth Saab

Of And that's in every facet. And I will say this. My own personal expectations are so much higher for myself. And because I've held myself to a higher standard in this public sector world, I've made a lot of people mad. Because I can come across as righteous, hard headed, difficult.

66:47

Elizabeth Saab

I mean, there are just so many I have been called so many adjectives.

66:50

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Twice I like you.

66:51

Elizabeth Saab

Twice been called so many adjectives, several of which I cannot say because they're not

66:58

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Join the club.

66:58

Elizabeth Saab

Not not whatever. But what I do what I will say I will say this. I am so passionate about our city.

67:05

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Mhmm.

67:05

Elizabeth Saab

And I am so passionate about the people of our city from all sectors, whether they live in South, Southern, East, West, whether they're business leaders or nonprofit. I mean, I will tell you, I have been able to see the beauty of collaboration when people are focused on a mission. And I think that that's the beautiful part of what we are looking at, is that right now, we are seeing people focused on what they're passionate about. And to me, I hope that first of all, it inspires me. And it inspires me not to give up in this public sector world that we live in.

67:52

Elizabeth Saab

But it also inspires me to continue being bold.

67:55

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yep. As it should. For better or worse. No, I'm glad that we did this. And I want

68:00

Elizabeth Saab

to say one thing real quick before we go. A couple of years ago, I was with a group of friends who were also colleagues, in a sense, because we were all working in the same public sector space. And I was just so frustrated about this agenda item being posted then, and this isn't happening this way, and why is this blah, blah, blah? And the person looked at me, and she said, you know all the ins and outs and the intricacies of it, but what people really care about are their streets safe. That's Are they getting clean water?

68:35

Elizabeth Saab

Yes. Are there potholes on their streets? And what that made me realize is to take my own frustration around governance out and look at it from a bigger picture, but to leverage my knowledge in trying to help fix it behind the scenes, which is what I hope that I'm contributing to. If I could play a very small part in making our city a better place, then I will feel like I have had

69:05

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

a purpose. Well, you already have. You already have. And I hope that this is just the first step into you moving into the front of the movement instead of just being a behind the scenes brilliant operator.

69:19

Elizabeth Saab

Well, I appreciate that.

69:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes. Thank you for being here, Elizabeth.

69:21

Elizabeth Saab

I appreciate you. Yes.

Episode Timeline

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Episode Timeline

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Fight for The Truth

The Dallas Express reports what Legacy Media won’t.