Let's Talk Local Podcast | Behind the Badge: A Retired Chief’s Fight for Law Enforcement

00:04

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

There's a hidden challenge facing our police officers and one that's rarely talked about but deeply impacts their daily lives. I'm Sarah zubiate Bennett, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to the launch of Let's Talk Local. Today, we're broadcasting from our brand new studio with a very special guest, retired assistant police chief of the Dallas Police Department, Reuben Ramirez. Together, we'll dive into this very overlooked issue and what it really means for those who serve and protect us. I'm excited to have you, and Chief Ramirez here for our very first episode. Don't forget to like and subscribe to join us on this journey.

00:38

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Okay. 1st, you are our opening interview for Let's Talk Local, and so I am thrilled and honored that you're here. Your book goes into extreme detail about life, life in service, and what that looks like. You depicted your experiences in such a vulnerable, perfectly descriptive way. I was full of many emotions. Crying. I was furious in some. I was happy in others. So thank you for your investment in this community. You have recently retired. Can you tell us the exact amount of time that you spent serving as a police officer and a chief?

01:27

Chief Reuben Ramirez

So I did 29 years, with the Dallas Police Department.

01:31

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

3 decades.

01:31

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Almost 3 decades. Started at 22 years old. I've been on the command staff for 8 years.

01:39

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I was assistant chief for 4 years, bureau chief over criminal investigations bureau. I was the bureau chief over tactical and special operations. And then most recently, I was the bureau chief over all patrol operations at City of Dallas before I retired 2 months ago.

01:53

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right. And so you have 3 decades worth of experience, and I have not enough time to sit here and ask, for more of your insight. Your wisdom is immense. And I don't think I mean, I even interviewed the old police chief, Eddie Garcia, who whom we all loved and who will be sorely missed.

02:15

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I'll tell you that I didn't know that I was gonna retire.

02:18

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

You didn't?

02:19

Chief Reuben Ramirez

No. The backstory is and you know this from reading the book, but the backstory is that chief Garcia, Eddie Garcia tasked me with doing an assessment of DPD, after we had seen a series of officers, arrested for alcohol related incidents. And and so we knew that there had to be something bigger. So there's that this behavior was not just our officers discarding the law or or feeling that, you know, they're just making this this decision to drive intoxicated. There had to be something more, and so, went out to do an assessment and through a series of different conversations throughout the PD really for about a month of of really in-depth conversations about the resources that are available, if they were being utilized, why or why not. I just I continue to hear the same themes. People were not using the resources. Very stoic police department, very hard in culture to be to be really candid. And it it wasn't until a one particular focus group conversation where they it got kinda heated about about mental and emotional health, and and and as you can imagine, many police officers don't wanna hear a 2 star chief asking them about their mental health. And and so, through that conversation, just the the floodgates just opened up, and and officers started sharing some of the most difficult parts of their job. And the things that they mentioned involved exposure to other people's tragedies

03:39

Chief Reuben Ramirez

To other people's grief Other people's sadness. They talked about the sound of wailing mothers, and they talked about contorted bodies at at fatality car crashes. They talked about the awkward space at a suicide scene, and this is not what mainstream America believes is affecting police officers. But yet, in one of the most marquee cities in the world, our men and women are saying that these are the things that cause me to not sleep at night.

04:05

Chief Reuben Ramirez

These are the things that are affecting my mental and emotional health. And coincidentally, the things that they were mentioning were were routine in nature. These were not the critical incidents which which usually solicit some sort of support services. These are the routine calls. And so taking this information, I just I it just grabbed me, and I thought how could we have missed this? How could this not be part of the support system to to check on our police officers when they're going to these these very impactful, you know, sad, grief ridden calls, and that's how we came up with the checkpoint strategy. That's why we started implementing this this whole program, and when I started to see the results, when I started to see SWAT operators, supervisors over SWAT standing up and talking about their difficulties and their challenges and encouraging our men and women to counseling, I knew that we had something really good here, and I wanted to spread it. And I've been able to see Fort Worth PD implement this exact strategy. Charlotte Mecklenburg PD implemented the checkpoint strategy. Carrollton, Rockwall. I've seen it spread, and I knew that, this was what I wanted to be part of, and and this is what I was meant to do. So I made the decision after talking with Eddie Garcia and made the decision that I would transition after the summer. In September, I officially parted ways with DPD.

05:25

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh my gosh. Well, I'm just grateful that you're here. In November of the same year, I saw that you and chief, Eddie Garcia were awarded just recently. Can you tell us a little bit about those awards? We received the, Shining Star Award, for the development of this program. It's a big honor. I mean, if there's anything to, and Chief Garcia will would would second this, but, you know, of all the accomplishments that that that that you can have in a PD, there's nothing greater than than building something that would have a legacy of support for our men and women to give them the opportunity to come to this profession and actually thrive here and and have a chance to be the men and women that we set out to be when we took this profession is an incredibly powerful thing, and we're not done yet. We have we have, many men and women who have come forward around the country requesting information about this program, and we aren't gonna stop till we can bring the checkpoint strategy to every police or first responder entity in the country and beyond.

06:33

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Looking at this book, you speak about an initial moment in your career along with a bunch of other personal experiences that inspired you to write your book. Would you mind telling us a little bit about what all of those experiences together look like?

06:50

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I mean, this is what it's like to be a police officer, an American police officer today. It is filled with emotions. You know, I say in the book that policing is a very emotional profession, arguably the most emotional profession. And and it's because of those reasons. It's because every day you are taking in some sort of sadness, some sort of frustration, some sort of difficulty. And it's difficult, on the minds of our young, very impressionable men and women, public servant hearted men and women, to come in and consume that amount of emotion. And I think, this book, I was able to just capture, some of those emotions and put it in a in a almost a manual that says, here's the blueprint to help the future generations. If nothing else, the future generations of police, And then it's it's equipped with anecdotally and stories that are incredibly relatable. And as I travel the country and present this program, the the main thing I hear is I had the exact same experience. I had a very similar story.

07:53

Chief Reuben Ramirez

When you open the book, the the first chapter does talk about, a very difficult call that I answered a very young police officer. The short version is that, a man handed me his little 3 year old daughter that he had found floating in a swimming pool. And, I talk about how difficult it was to to sleep after that call or or eat after that call. I didn't know why that one call of all the calls, why that one call, I just couldn't move away. I couldn't move past it.

08:21

Chief Reuben Ramirez

This is what our men and women are exposed to on a daily basis and sometimes, far before even, you know, 4 years of of exposures I had. So this is what needs to be brought to the forefront in the discussion about staffing, recruiting, retention, paying benefits. This is part of the formula, and it needs to to have a voice tied to it. It needs to to be, I think that we need to bring attention to it and and bring it out there so people know what that experience is like. And then we can talk about how it is that we can recruit better and and important just as importantly, retain.

08:56

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Thank you so much for that. I was having to hold back tears as you were talking about that because this was part of the reason why my why I was filled with fury because and I, again, I know that you cannot comment on whether you agreed or disagreed with, the proposition that the city passed. It's now law Proposition U. And so, an incremental amount of new revenue next year is going to be allocated to the police, and it is something I am so grateful for. Because as I hear people talking about, oh, you know, a library or a park, and then I think about all of the sacrifice that the police endure on a daily basis, I think to myself, now that's just common sense Want versus need. Need. We need to take care of our officers. We must. Your lives are endangered every day, especially in Dallas. Everything that you do for our community is of utmost importance.

10:11

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Your service impacts crime. And I think now after this, next question that I have for you regarding a horrific event that everyone knows that took place on July 7, 2016 that happened, the conversations are much more material because we see what it looks like to not have the police department appropriately funded and taken care of. And I'm very grateful that that's changing. You touched upon the aftermath that settled into the Dallas police department surrounding the silence of the horrific tragedy where 5 belief police officers were shot in the back and 7 others were wounded on July 7th, there was silence. And you even wrote, I personally recall my oldest son who was 15 at the time calling me repeatedly while staying at his grandmother's house and watching the event on TV. I finally answered the phone and quickly told him that I was okay and to tell his mom that I would call them back as soon as I could. Can you describe the silence that fell upon the officers at DPD after this event and elaborate on what you wrote, which was, but what is the effect of knowing that the emotional part is hardly ever mentioned or addressed by the media or your own department, does that also create an a conditioning to not address it yourself because perhaps no one else believes it's worthy of addressing?

11:37

Chief Reuben Ramirez

At that particular time, there was a reluctance of many police forces to really talk about or elaborate on the force that we use that led to the death of a suspect, even a suspect. It whether it was because the there would still be some sort of litigation tied around the case, whether the case would have to be prosecuted if there was a defendant, in in the case. For whatever reason, there was a reluctance to talk about the details of it. And I think as I look back and did research after 8 years now removed and even in the writing of this book, there were many police officers who still wanted to talk about that night. They want to share what it was that they experienced, and and really wanna understand what their colleagues experienced as well.

12:27

Chief Reuben Ramirez

There's many officers, particularly SWAT operators who told me that here were some of the things they did, and they saw other officers doing things through their peripheral. It was very fast, but they would like to know who those officers were, and really get a a vantage point from them or a perspective from them. And for us in particular in Dallas, we we were just, we were we weren't talking about it. And and then, you know, when you combine that with, some of the reluctance of of maybe, you know, even the media sources talking about what the the details of of what our actions were, it does condition your police force to think, well, if nobody's really talking about this, maybe I shouldn't be either. And and and, you know, we have to be I think that, you know, some of the understanding of what the experience is to be a police officer is that we are operating in a very thick culture, a very rich culture, and there is a a sense of a herd mentality here.

13:20

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We are we are doing what our colleagues are doing, and so when we see other people not talking about it including whether it's, you know, the public, whether it's our command staff or supervisors, we tend to think that that's the direction we need to go as well. And in that particular case, and, I will tell you speaking from experience, it did us a disservice because as an assistant chief who was took part in many, disciplinary hearings of our officers who were who had become the subject of some sort of investigation. And and when they cited some of the difficulties of their jobs or the things that they were carrying, they almost always referenced that night. So there was a lot of unhealed wounds as a result of it. And I think that, the awareness and the discussion in a platform and venue of their choosing would have been beneficial. And I don't think that many of our police officers got the opportunity to do that, and I think that that exists in a large part throughout the country as well.

14:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

You know, first responders are often seen as the, very silent type. Not the silent type, but they just handle it internally as best as they possibly can. How do societal perceptions and the culture of silence that you've often observed within emergency services specifically impact their mental well-being?

14:42

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Over the last 3 years, we've we've heard more about wellness. This is a very popular subject throughout the country whether, you know, post pandemic world, I think brought a lot of attention to that. I think in the police world, when you looked at the post George Floyd, protests and marches, it was a it was a very difficult space for for a lot of police forces. I think they there was a lot of attention placed on them for misconduct and behaviors that that were the actions of of a few, but yet a lot of police officers and police departments got got kinda grouped into that.

15:20

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And it appeared to be, from a lot of, you know, from a lot of police colleagues of mine, it appeared to be that we were everyone was being kinda lumped into the group of the actions of others and and and was what was most difficult was not necessarily the scrutiny about about the need for change and really the examining of of practices. That wasn't the bothersome part. What was really bothersome to a lot of police officers was they said, no one really came to our rescue. No one really defended us. No one really stood up and said, what well, let's hold on a second here. We shouldn't broad brush this, and that was one of the things that that bothered the or took an emotional toll, on police forces. I think when you combine that along with the the culture that really, you know, for almost a 150 years in in our city of of evolution has always had a difficulty of getting these these mental health and support resources through that cultural wall. No one ever really tried anything different. We just we saw newer and newer platforms, newer and newer applications. There were more modern and upgraded, therapy centers and rehab centers. There was there was fantastic psychiatrists and clinicians, but not a lot of focus or emphasis put on integrating through that cultural wall. And I think that without that, we really did, again, what what we'd always done in the past, which is just pack it down and grid it out and get back to work.

16:52

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Something that I don't think I was totally forthcoming about with you in the past is that I went to trauma treatment in 2022 for a lot of trauma that I had as a child young girl. And so I was in inpatient treatment for about 40 days being treated for intint intimacy issues as well as the trauma. And, but any woman there had significant trauma, most sexual trauma. And many officers, higher ups in the military, women had such horrific experiences. And I too was very good at stuffing everything down, and I was treated for workaholism because of that.

17:43

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I just ignored, ignored, ignored. I know some people struggle with alcoholism or drugs or whatever it might be, but it kills us slowly. It just erodes the fabric of our existence. And so the mental health of the police department, the men, something that I was not as understanding about until I read your book. And you talked extensively about the secondary trauma and how faith got you to where you are today? Would you mind sharing a little bit about your stories surrounding the secondary trauma that men and women in the workforce are subject to every day and also the role that faith played in helping you recover from some of your darkest moments?

18:34

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Even the story about, the little girl that I mentioned earlier, the effects of that of that call itself, I talked about, you know, experiencing difficulty eating, not really sleep, not really understanding exactly what I was experiencing. Just knowing that for some reason I felt different. I, in my mind, I just needed to make it to my days off. This happened on in Dallas, we're on 8 hour shifts 5 day work weeks. This happened on my Monday, so I had 5 days to go. I went the effects really started hitting me and we're around the 3rd day. I was still really struggling and a suspecting police officer reached out to me and and he he noticed that something was was not right with me, I guess. And he took the initiative to reach out and just check on me and he just said, you know, hey, Reuben, you know, how are you? And I said, you know, I'm okay. And he just got right into it and said, you know, those calls that call you went to the other day, those can be tough.

19:26

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And he says to me, shares a story about a car wreck that he had been to 20 years prior. He said he was working downtown Dallas, pickup truck, little boy, little 9 year old boy was in bed of a pickup truck, and that pickup truck had rolled over and and and he says that little boy was alive when he got to the scene. And he says, said he had talked to him. And he says, you know, we eventually raised the truck up, rushed that little boy to the hospital. And he says to me, he says, Reuben, that little boy died. He says, and I have spent the last 20 years of my career angry. He says, I've been mad at everyone. I've been mad at the city. I've been mad at the mayor, the police chief, my supervisor, you name it.

20:00

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And he knew I was a faith guy, and he says to me, he goes, you go to church. He goes, why don't you go talk to somebody at your church? And I didn't understand exactly what I was feeling at the time. I didn't know why he was sharing this with me, but I felt his under his understanding. I felt his empathy, and he gave me good guidance. He directed me to a professional. So I said, okay. And I drove that night. I rolled up my window, and I drove straight to a Catholic church that was down the way. And I knocked on that door, and I knocked until someone answered the door that night, and and a priest answered the door.

20:31

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And I just blurted out. I just said, you know, I can't eat. I can't sleep. And he asked me some questions, asked me if I knew this little girl, if I knew the family. I said, no. I never met them before in my life. And he says to me, he says he says, officer, what you're describing, he says, is grief. He says, you're not eating, you're not sleeping. He says, you're grieving for a family that you don't even know. And he says to me, officer, that is going above and beyond the call of duty. He says, that is protecting and serving at the highest level. And I share that story, for a couple reasons, but, one, because I didn't have at 26 years old, I didn't have a family member or a friend who could have taken that horrible incident Mhmm. And reframed it in a manner that allowed me to see some sort of nobility in in what I was what I had been through and what I was carrying, but he did. And and it helped me, and he was a it was a professional perspective.

21:31

Chief Reuben Ramirez

It was a professional lens that I needed at just the right time. And so, you know, I would learn later that that that that experience and that interaction with that professional and, like, with that with that priest, were meant for me to take note of. And and and 24 years later, as an assistant chief, now making decisions on discipline and the and the future and the careers and fate of our of our men and women, I got the opportunity to replicate that interaction, and that's the that's the checkpoint model. That's the blueprint in the book I wrote of.

22:07

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

In your leadership and management, especially in your last days spent at the DPD, I know you instituted this entire checkpoints program and model that is now being used across the country. Can you, just talk briefly about some of the common signs of emotional burnout among first responders that often go unnoticed?

22:37

Chief Reuben Ramirez

You know, I think I think in policing, we we tend to to show a sign of, or behaviors like dark humor. We talk about, oh, you know, in 1st responder community with dark humor. We see a lot of negativism.

22:49

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We see people just kind of, you know, getting angry about about things or short fuse. We've all seen those those incidents where cops have kind of, you know, blown their their cool, but we also see a lot of kind of stoic demeanor as well. So I think that that each of those is a byproduct of of just consuming secondary trauma, what I call other people's grief, other people's tragedy, other people's sadness, and really just wanting to continue to show up for the community, not believing that the community really wants to see a kind of an emotional wreck, which which I get that part. We they don't, but there, there's only so much that you can you can consume and just throw to the back, before it starts to man back your mind, before it starts to manifest into some sort of negative conversation or some sort of dark humor, or even worse, you know, where where you start to see the deterioration of your work product, maybe the more discourteousness to the community. And what is extremely unfortunate about the current model that exists in most police agencies in the country is that that many of them index on behaviors.

23:57

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We are looking for behaviors to decide whether or not there's some sort of intervention might be needed or some sort of resources might be needed. And and while I think there's there's a place for that, I think it's also very important to recognize that a lot of bad things have to have already happened and been consumed before the point where you're you're showing these behaviors. And you know, we say things like early intervention, but early is a very relative term.

24:24

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

It is.

24:24

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Right? We can be early before a police officer, god forbid, takes his life. We can be early before a police officer ruins his career, loses his family.

24:35

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Or we can actually be early and recognize that cumulatively, these calls are impactful, and we should be offering support and normalizing the conversation well early on before those behaviors start to manifest.

24:48

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

But in the actual book, you didn't talk about any cost associated with the implementation of this model.

24:56

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Yeah.

24:57

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Could you give just a ballpark idea of how it's executed, or how it was executed here?

25:04

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Yeah. Sure. So the the checkpoint strategy is is very simply taking your recognizing that almost every police agency in the country currently has a peer support model. Peer support was a a concept that was created in the 19 seventies and out of LAPD and on paper makes perfect sense. Right?

25:22

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We have we have peers who are here to support their colleagues. They they have similar experiences so they should be able to support them. But on paper, it makes perfect sense, but it really doesn't have as strong a practical application. It doesn't really address the cultural impediments. And so what I propose is that every agency take that very reactive peer support model and let's change it to a proactive checkpoint model.

25:47

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And so the difference is in a peer support model, you generally just ask for volunteers to come forward and be part of peer support. You don't do that in a checkpoint strategy. In the checkpoint strategy, you are specific about who is going to be doing the checking. We are only gonna use the men and women that other police officers look up to, the ones that they respect. And so we go into an agency. We identify them. We develop them, we basically rally call them, we tell them you have something that these stars on my collar will never have nor will any PhD on the wall have. You have influence within this organization, and no one is coming to our rescue. In fact, no one ever has in in this in this mental and emotional health space.

26:27

Chief Reuben Ramirez

So we rally them to be the messengers, and we tell them you're not gonna do therapy on anyone. You're not gonna have to ask people how they're feeling or share any person. All you're gonna do is say, hey, I know those calls can be tough. I'm here if you need anything. I'm working. We've got resources. If you need, if you wanna know more, let me know and I'll be happy to send it to you. If nothing else, save my phone number, I'm available if you need anything. It's just a checkpoint. It's a 15 second call, But you do it with so much of frequency at such a ratio that you can't help but normalize the conversation. And and and then you start to you start to see the culture change. You start to see the really our ultimate goal, which is making our men and women receptive to the vast resources that are out there. So it's almost a philosophical shift. It's we're taking our models that are really in the dugout and we're putting them on the playing field and and we've seen it, and we've seen it success, we've seen it work, and we see, you know, the the probably the one factor that I love the most is that, this program is is receptive to the first responders, like, they're the ones who like this. They're the ones who advocate for it and champion it, and they're the ones who are leading it.

27:37

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And it doesn't cost an agency money to make that shift. Now, they're, you know, you have to allocate resources to be able to do that and when we talk about this environment where we have fewer and fewer resources and we need to recruit better, you know, police departments will often be very quick to say, well, I don't have the resources for it. Well, I would challenge that you don't have the resource. You don't you don't have the budget to not do something like this.

28:00

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's right.

28:01

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Because when you start looking at your attrition numbers, especially the the the 1 to 5 year officer that we're losing, and, you know, coincidentally, the checkpoint strategy is is you're taking your experienced officers, your senior officers, and you're checking on those 1 to 5 year officers most frequently. So it's like, we've gotta get out of our old antiquated thinking about mental health, emotional health, recruiting, retention, all being, you know, just go, you know, put a flyer together or put a website or try to recruit them to to our city. You've gotta think more in-depth about all of these concepts. And and the way that you recruit in today's world in part is letting your recruit know that if we use the checkpoint strategy, you don't ever have to come forward if you're struggling here, we'll come to you. That's appealing to a potential candidate.

28:52

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Knowing that they are gonna be checked on during the 1st few years of their of their careers so frequently, developing a network, relationships, normalizing a discussion about emotional health resources being provided to them is a retention tool. So when we're using our senior officers and they're getting to do what it is they've always really come here to do, which is protect and serve, but in in this case, they're getting to also share their experiences and and help create an environment where some of these younger officers, who look up to them won't go through some of the difficulties that they did and I think that it just serves multiple purposes and it creates a healthier culture for your PD which is going to create a safer community because a healthy cop, he or she is operating, with you know, really all the tools that that they that we want them to have to serve our communities at at the level that we expect them to and so it just it it's got multiple benefits, but we've gotta get out of our old way of thinking.

29:48

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Let's say you're out at a job fair and you're trying to recruit people. The amount of time that it takes one person to come on to DPD, amount of time it takes to train them, and the cost associated with that entire system to the very first day that they're actually on the field?

30:10

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Well, the recruiting costs, those will vary because if we're doing stuff, you know, local recruiting fares versus traveling. But from a time frame, I think Dallas is probably, pretty expeditious in in finding a recruit that is eligible and getting them into the academy, but we could say probably on the short time on the short time frame about 3 months. Once you get a police recruit into the academy, now you have a 9 month training cycle in the academy. After you're have you have completed successfully completed the academy, now you have 6 months of field training where you have to ride with a senior officer before you're actually able to to get out on the street. So so that timeline alone is probably where where are we math wise is somewhere over a year and a half closer, probably embarking on on 2 years.

30:59

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

2 years. Yeah.

31:00

Chief Reuben Ramirez

To be able to get a a to go from a job fair to the to the the qualifying and hiring, to where they're out on their own protecting and serving in a squad car. Cost that in Dallas, our cost is probably around the $150,000 range to go through the recruiting, the training, and and kinda get to that full fledged. Other cities may be more depending on what types of equipment they provide. If you start adding equipment to it, you know, because everyone when they graduate is is outfitted with their vest, their body cams, their tasers, weapons, and and, whatnot. So so the cost is, it's probably up there in the $200,000 to get a in in about almost 2 years.

31:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And now would you describe the the space, the academy, and what is needed to hire potentially more? And let's just say 50 more 50 more police in 1 year.

32:01

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Well, I think logistic there's a lot of logistical components to it. I mean, you've gotta have the facility, first of all, to be able to house that amount of recruits.

32:11

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

What is a facility like right now? I know this, but I want our viewers and listeners to know.

32:19

Chief Reuben Ramirez

If it's not terrible, it'll do, for terrible. So Yeah. It's not good. It's, it it resembles a a probably just a shopping strip I think from the seventies.

32:35

Chief Reuben Ramirez

It's just it has it it lacks curb appeal and that's the understatement of probably. But, yes. So it's not a very, attractive I know that the staffing the staff out there has done a lot to try to modify and make, you know, as much adjustments. So I wanna make sure that they're getting the, credit for all all those commanders and and staff that have been at the academy trying to do what they can, but but it lacks in comparison to any other major major city. So that that's that's the the first piece that I think doesn't, you know, set us off on the right foot. I know and there's a lot that's been done, to to bring a new or a lot of discussion and funding. I think that's in the works to Bring a newer academy. But but as it is right now, it's, it's not good.

33:17

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Mhmm. And how many people can you train in that academy today at maximum?

33:23

Chief Reuben Ramirez

You know, I I don't know. I've never been, of all my bureau chief assignments, I I was I was never over administrative, bureau that that that included the academy. My understanding is, they've been successful at at moving 250 recruits through that academy a year, and I think they've they've they've pretty consistently been able to do that. But but what winds up happening with is that, you know, for every police recruit that you're gonna move through the academy, you you've got to have an equal or greater number of of trainers that are going to be able to to help train them, particularly when they graduate the academy, because now you, you know, you're on field training and you've gotta have, you gotta take a training officer, a senior officer out of his call call answering responsibility primary call answering responsibilities to to train, and and they may get to a point pretty quickly where they can go out and answer 2 man calls and and be effective, but that trainer is gonna have to he's he's he's he's watching and grading and assessing, that police officer. So there's just kind of a little bit of a of a focus that has to go towards that.

34:27

Chief Reuben Ramirez

And and when you talk about moving more than, you know, I guess, 250 recruits out of the academy and into the field training component, that that's at least 250 field trainers that have to be out there. And so if you increase those numbers, you're gonna have to increase your your field trainers as well.

34:44

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And have you all been hitting the maximum 250 recruits and trainees per year?

34:49

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I believe over the the last, few years they've been in that vicinity. I don't know exact numbers. I think they've been they've been fairly close. I will tell you that the the biggest to me, the bigger the even greater challenge is is not necessarily recruiting, but it's it's retaining.

35:03

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Retention.

35:04

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We lose about that many police officers a year, if not more.

35:08

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Do you think with normalization and equalization of pay, so increasing pay, do you think that will help to address a lot of the retention issues?

35:19

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I don't think pay alone will solve that problem. I think it will help. I think that, I think there was a time when when police officers would come to the field and and and many of them felt this was a calling, they were just they were here they were here to protect and serve and all of the other, ancillary components to to what the what the job might, include, involve. I think they were they were very second to that. Mhmm.

35:44

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I don't know that the new workforce believes that, and and so I think that having, fair compensation is is a big part of it, and I I think that because we're all all police departments are really were fishing in the same pool.

35:58

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah.

35:59

Chief Reuben Ramirez

We've got to be competitive in that space or or we won't get the second look. And Dallas is a great city. It's a world known city, world class city. But this city is also it has its challenges for the police forces.

36:10

Chief Reuben Ramirez

It is not an easy city by most standards to be a police officer. You are going to be faced with challenges here. You're gonna they're going to be, you know, all types of crime. You know, I usually like to say that crime has no address, but it it does have areas that it that it frequents. And so, you know, we've gotta be very real about what we put our police officers up against here, and I don't think it's easy to be a major city police, officer, and and and and Dallas is no exception to that to that standard.

36:41

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

What are some of the top three most difficult hurdles that you all have faced in Dallas? I I know the frustration surrounding the response time. If you can talk a little bit about that, the response time for the different tiers and thresholds.

36:57

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Well yeah. So response times are I mean, these are, these are quality of life issues. When our when our community calls 911 . That is not a good day for them. And and so when you're not having a difficult time and you have to get to the point where you pull your phone out and call 911, you know, you not only hope that somebody answers that call, do you hope that a police officer or somebody that can that can help you?

37:19

Chief Reuben Ramirez

You know, if we're not hitting our response time goals, then I think that's frustrating for the community member, but it's also frustrating for the police officer. No police officer ever ever became a police officer because they wanted to arrive an hour or 2 after a citizen community member, called them or needed them. So that's frustrating. Violent crime is obviously, you know, that's a big one, and we have to address violent crime, and I think we do. I think the city has a good plan in place, and I think it's been effective, but there are so many other parts to that equation than police officers arresting a bad guy.

37:51

Chief Reuben Ramirez

I mean, if the judicial system isn't doing its part, if they really it's a community is not doing their part to be the eyes and ears, We will never hit those those crime fighting goals either. So, I think it it's really it's that same theme and there we historically, we looked at things like response times reducing crime as almost one dimension, like, this is all you have to do. But the reality is in order to do each of those, there's gotta be a lot of different things happening. And, you know, and that includes today just investing in the technology and and making sure that the administrative functions of a police department that were not around to the degree that they are now 10 years ago. Like, every every police detective, in Dallas p d at least, if not the entire country, can tell you that their their responsibilities have increased by at least 40% over over the last 5 or 10 years with the new administrative responsibilities due to technology.

38:44

Chief Reuben Ramirez

But yet, I don't know that our our investment or infrastructure in technology has matched that so that the user so the products we're using, the technology we're using can be user friendly and that we can streamline like, it needs to be. And so, yeah, those frustrations are are all part of it and until until really there's just a very 360 degree look at what investments are needed in order to make, police department as efficient as they possibly can be, including their staffing, then only then will you get a a really good look at, at what the staffing model needs to be. I think that's probably that's probably one of the better ways to say that is that in order to really know what what the ideal, staffing model is, you really need to know and understand all of the responsibilities, not just how do we reduce crime or how do we respond to a police force.

39:38

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So I do believe now that the police force is going to be looked at very comprehensively, and it must be in order to understand how to best allocate these funds that you all will have. And I know it's never enough, at least we're starting somewhere, with the new funds that will be allocated to the police department. It's just a resounding cry of the community wanting our police force to be taken care of, and I'm very grateful that we're now looking at this pipeline with these new circumstances. Can you provide any of your thoughts on the pension and how you hope it will be addressed in the future?

40:25

Chief Reuben Ramirez

Well, I think the pension is, I mean, it is part of the, I guess, the overall equation for our in our efforts to recruit, there again, we're all fishing, in a smaller pool, and we want the best possible applicants and most qualified applicants for our city. And, the current workforce is looking at all of those things, and I and I think that until that is really in a shape where it, gives the potential recruit confidence, I think that it will hurt us in our recruiting efforts. I'll say that much.

40:57

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. And like I mentioned earlier, so this book, Checkpoints, it's not just available in hard copy, but it is available on Kindle and also available for download on Audible. I think it's $7 on Audible, and I forget how much it was on Kindle. Well, it was, like, $17, and then it's $21 for the physical book. But since this episode's gonna be launching right before Thanksgiving, Shanon and I will be taking some books down to wasn't it the police station that you grew up by? And then, also, I really want our viewers and listeners to be able to click the link and send a book, send 10 books, send the Audible. How how does that work? So if they wanted to send, let's say, Audible credits because it's much less expensive, right, to just send $7 versus $21, How would they do that?

41:56

Chief Reuben Ramirez

So there are some options, on the website Mhmm. Www.startcheckpoints.com, where you can you can donate the link. We would send an m p 4, to that particular, officer and as many as as as as they may want to send, as well as the Kindle and the book. I would tell you that Amazon is probably most people that navigate through the website, they're like, well, I could do it here, but I think I'm just gonna go to to Amazon, and and that's fine as well.

42:24

Chief Reuben Ramirez

But we're so appreciative of we've had I mean, this city is fantastic for it, but we have had, many people who have donated books, to agencies. And, I've had, you know, we've had people reach out to us and just say that they had 25 books delivered to their police and it really wasn't me. So I yeah. I just love that the community and that really corporate America is getting and is getting involved in in shipping books out. We've got to spread the message. We're small group, but, I think this is just another example of collectively that we there's nothing we can't do if we work together, and I've seen I've seen philanthropic groups and corporate America, and then just people in our community that just, wanna get be part of this, come forward, and and and you're one of them. So I appreciate that as well.

43:09

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah. We love you guys. We love you all and appreciate all that you've done and that you continue to do. I cannot wait to watch all that you do. Where do you post the most? I couldn't find a lot on your X. So I think Instagram and LinkedIn are probably where I'm putting the most out right now. And LinkedIn. And then, Instagram @start checkpoints.

43:33

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I cannot wait. I'm gonna follow you in all of your new adventures, and I really hope that you'll remain in touch because, again, I'm a big fan, big supporter, and I just appreciate your time.

43:44

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So it's tough to step away from our gorgeous new studio, but the delicious food at Box Bites makes it totally worth it. This charming little shop had only been open 1 week when we visited, so like us, they're soaking up all the excitement of being fresh and new. Come along as we explore Box Bites in Dallas.

44:03

Paige Muller

Yeah. My name is Paige Mueller, and I started Box Bites 4 and a half years ago. My fiance and I made these cheese and charcuterie boxes and just delivered them to friends' houses with, like, a I'll see you soon kind of note. And then they posted on Instagram, and then their friends and followers were like, wait. I wanna choose a charcuterie box delivered to my house. And so on and so on. And four and a half years later, here we are in our first retail space. So over here in the grab and go fridge, we have everything we make in house fresh every single day. And then we replenish it constantly. So it's lunchtime right now.

44:33

Paige Muller

So as things go out, we just kind of keep replenishing and adding more, but we make the Caesar salad, Greek salad, all of our dressing in house, hummus dips, sandwiches, the ginger green tea is to die for.

44:45

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh, I will be having one of those. Yes. I will be buying one.

44:48

Paige Muller

And then we have to on Thursdays through Saturday or if people order in advance, premade cheese and charcuterie boards and also crudite boards with our fresh made dips. For quick grab and go. And then over here, we have a

45:01

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

This is what I'm gonna be doing.

45:03

Paige Muller

Kind of the main the main star of the show, if you will. So every day, it's a create your own experience.

45:08

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Uh-huh.

45:09

Paige Muller

And so we have a create your own yogurt parfait bar Or a build your own cheese and charcuterie box, which is really, really fun. So for the cheese and charcuterie boxes, and I'll hop over there and we can make you one, but we've got 3 different sizes. Our cutie, for example, is $15, and you can just pick 4 items. So you can pick 4 items that you want, whether you want 4 cheeses, meats, mixed nuts, dried fruit, and all of our selection changes daily. Same thing with the yogurt parfait. It's different yogurts, different fruits, different granolas, lots of different options.

45:40

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's great. So we could do 3 small individuals.

45:43

Paige Muller

Okay.

45:44

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

And then one of these large boxes.

45:47

Paige Muller

Perfect.

45:48

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So it has everything here. Mild cheddar, gouda, Colby Jack, Manchego. Oh,I love oh, I love cheese. Yes.

45:55

Paige Muller

So this is our for us box, and you get 8 items. Great. So you can pick any 8 that you'd like, and then it also comes with 2 spreads. So we have a local Texas honey, a Mike's hot honey, or a fig spread.

46:08

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Can we do the hot the spicy and the fig?

46:10

Paige Muller

Of course. Great choice.

46:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Okay. And then, anything with spicy, I'm sold? Yes. And then whatever you think.

46:18

Paige Muller

Do you want me to just make it for you?

46:19

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yeah. Make it for us since we'll all be kind of eating, and then we'll probably be hungry after and we'll get another box. Like, what's going through your mind right now while you're sitting here piecing all of this? Are you like, okay. I'm gonna pick my favorite pieces?

46:33

Paige Muller

I kind of try to do the most popular items and what everybody seems to really enjoy. Great. And then I usually try to add something that maybe you've never had before That sounds just wonderful and delicious. Amazing. The goal was kind of to create like, bring special moments to life is all that I really want to do. And having a space where people can come and kinda be a one stop shop. Get your cheese and charcuterie. Let's say you're going to somebody's house for dinner And you wanna get a cheese and charcuterie box.

47:02

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Yes. Right?

47:03

Paige Muller

Yes. Grab a wooden board. We have wooden boards over there, hostess gifts, thank you notes, like cards, nice cards. And then soon, we're gonna start selling wine and champagne. Oh. So you'll be able to kind of get everything all in one swoop, which is really fun.

47:18

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I have a question. For corporate events, do people normally do the box size bites? The box bites?

47:25

Paige Muller

So these boxes that say, like, every time you walk through our door, we do a happy dance. These are specific for the pop up, like, for the for the storefront.

47:32

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

For the store?

47:33

Paige Muller

Yes. And then all of those boxes up there on our top shelf, they're tied with lavender and twine. They're beautiful. That's typically what we do for corporate orders.

47:42

Paige Muller

So we also do lunch boxes for, like, company office lunches, and so they they're tied with, like, twine and dried lavender, and they have a sandwich, chips, and a cookie, which is a great little box that's perfect. Isn't that gorgeous? Any edits, changes, tweaks?

48:00

Paige Muller

Just so you know, for these, it obviously doesn't include crackers or anything like that, but we have a whole pantry section over here where you can get crackers, where you can get lavash from Empire Baking, whole baguettes, additional figs fresh.

48:12

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Gosh. And you even have little books.

48:15

Paige Muller

Oh, yeah. Those are for kids to read.

48:17

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Here. Oh my gosh.

48:19

Paige Muller

So mom can have a glass of wine and kids can read. And have a snack.

48:23

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So, okay, which ones do you recommend to try those with?

48:27

Paige Muller

I personally love these long crackers, which are great. And then let's say you really love and enjoy the fig spread. We sell lots of different varieties of them in house. And everything, we can always tie a gift bow around and make it make it a special gift. So the yogurts and the granolas and the fruits and everything, the offerings change daily. Today, we have a Greek vanilla, which is definitely our most popular. We also have a low fat vanilla. Would you like any almond butter or peanut butter? And so with the small size, you get the yogurt and 3 toppings.

49:09

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

May I do the peanut butter chocolate granola? Absolutely. Great choice.

49:12

Paige Muller

Would you like any honey or agave or Maldon salt on top?

49:15

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Salt? Yeah.

49:16

Paige Muller

I had never had it before, but there was a family that I lived with in when I lived in New York.

49:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Uh-huh.

49:20

Paige Muller

He would always make the yogurt parfaits with honey and almonds on it. It was just, like, denied more. It's really good.

49:24

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

I'll try it. I have to bring the kids here. They would love it.

49:28

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh gosh. Yes.

49:32

Paige Muller

The hummus, like I said, we make in house every day. So I really think you'll love it. Here, total's $141.81.

49:40

Paige Muller

I'll give you guys a bag. Aren't they so cute?

49:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

They are cute. Oh, and they have a little location.

49:46

Paige Muller

So if anybody gets lost, we're just right here. Oh, that's so cute. I really thought Saturdays were gonna be chill. Not at all. Not at all. We had this whole fridge filled with, party boards. We have different size boards. We have some that are $75 price point, and we have some that are a $175. We have crudites boards for $50.

50:08

Paige Muller

Like, we try to really have a range of everything in different styles of the boards. And on Saturday, we filled this fridge 6 different times. And every time I saw that, like, I couldn't make them pass it.

50:19

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

So amazing. Yeah. Congratulations.

50:22

Paige Muller

It was funny. On Halloween, which was our first Thursday, we did a little, like, I put a good. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you love it.

50:34

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

It's It's good. It's unreal.

50:35

Paige Muller

Try really hard to have, like, the highest quality of ingredients of every single category of everything because all of those little things really make a huge difference.

50:42

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Oh my gosh. The granola. The salt. Salt. Oh my god. You would have never thought that.

50:46

Paige Muller

Right?

50:48

Paige Muller

So we put a little sign out until, like, today we're doing charbooterie boards, and it was like charcuterie with candy and, like, a little candy corns and things like that. And I just couldn't even make them fast enough because I would bring it out. And then somebody was like, oh, I'll take one. So I'd go back and I'm like, oh, okay. I'm gonna make 2 just so we have an extra.

51:06

Paige Muller

And then by then, more people wanted it, and they couldn't even make it to the fridge. So that being said, now we know we need to staff a little bit more. And we need we just need some more hands, which is cool.

51:17

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

That's amazing. i A great problem to have. Congratulations.

51:20

Sarah Zubiate Bennett

Thank you. Thank you guys so much for coming in.

Episode Timeline

Full Transcript