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12 Nov 2025
Off the Rails: DART’s Costly Culture of Mismanagement

Think DART Doesn’t Affect You? Think Again. And it could get worse.

Even if you’ve never stepped foot on a DART train or bus, you’re still paying for it—every time you shop in Dallas. A portion of your sales tax goes straight to DART’s budget. But despite all that funding, the agency is buried in billions of dollars of debt.

So what went wrong? In this episode of Let’s Talk Local, we dig into the mismanagement that’s led to rising fares, service cuts, executive bonuses, possible corruption, and even a 44% jump in crime on the system. And with cities now considering pulling out of DART altogether—what happens to your money if they do? We discuss with Dallas Express reporter Logan Washburn and Texas House Representative Mitch Little. 

0:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Host
Logan Washburn
Guest
Mitch Little
Guest

Episode Timeline

All Episodes
02:07
What led to Logan doing his series on DART?
06:17
Strongest arguments for and against DART funding
12:48
Uncovering the bonuses paid to DART executives
17:39
Possible corruption from DART chair of the board
25:36
Rising crime on DART
32:53
Mitch Little talks Plano vs DART
37:37
Why are suburban member cities upset with DART?
40:28
What will DART look like if member cities opt out of their services?
45:31
What role does Mitch play in this DART issue as a member of the House Transportation Committee?
51:15
Final thoughts on the issue
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Join host Sarah Zubiate Bennett on Let’s Talk Local as she uncovers the stories, people, and places shaping Dallas, fostering a stronger and more connected community—let's get to know the real Dallas!

Full Transcript

00:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Hi. I'm Sarah Zubiate Bennett, and I've got a question for you. Are you ready to foot the bill for DART's financial mismanagement? Because that's exactly what could happen if cities like Plano, Highland Park, and Carrollton decide to pull out of the transit system. And honestly, can you blame them?
00:16
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Crime on DART is up 44%. We're talking arson, assault, robbery, drugs, and these cities are pouring tens of millions of dollars more into DART than they're getting back. But is there more to the story? To help us sort through it all, we've brought in two guests who know this issue inside and out. First, Dallas Express reporter Logan Roshburn, who's covered DART extensively since this summer.
00:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And Texas representative Mitch Little, who serves on the House Transportation Committee and has a front row seat to what's happening every day. You're already funding DART through your sales tax, and if things keep heading in the same direction, you could soon be paying even more. Money that could otherwise go to our roads, schools, or other services that actually work. This episode isn't about buses and trains. It's about accountability, safety, and your money.
01:07
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Let's get into it. Logan Washburn.
01:24
Logan Washburn
Thanks for having me on the show.
01:26
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Thank you for being here. I mean I believe that you're the first journalist I've ever interviewed.
01:31
Logan Washburn
Really?
01:32
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I think so.
01:33
Logan Washburn
Right. Well that's exciting.
01:34
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Did you think of any other time Shannon? No. I mean and it's interesting because Shannon especially, she was like he's so good, so thorough. And I'm like absolutely. It's a really bizarre thing because I never would have thought that I would have been so drawn to a reporter's writings on DART.
01:55
Logan Washburn
Yeah. I didn't think I would get interested in it either.
01:59
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. So what what was the trigger? What was the moment where you were like, this subject matter is really important to me and I'm just gonna start digging and digging and digging and going?
02:07
Logan Washburn
Yeah. So it would probably be when DART announced their whole public hearing tour earlier this summer saying we're running out of money, we're gonna be cutting all these services. And then the more I started talking to people about it I realized that they're already spending a lot of money Mhmm. On services right now. And there's more to the story than any of the other local outlets have been reporting.
02:33
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
02:33
Logan Washburn
They've just barely scratched the surface. Yep. They haven't bothered to ask why are they losing funding? What led up to this? And do they actually have a bunch of other money that they could be using?
02:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
02:47
Logan Washburn
So, as you just invest time and mental energy in a story Yeah. It starts to become really interesting to you, you know.
02:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And are you a journalist by education?
03:00
Logan Washburn
Kind of. I I got a minor in journalism.
03:02
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got you.
03:03
Logan Washburn
Uh-huh.
03:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay.
03:04
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
03:05
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I love it because so is this your first journalism job?
03:09
Logan Washburn
This is my second. That's your second. I was at the Federalist before.
03:12
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right. Yeah. I knew that.
03:13
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
03:14
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I knew that. Okay. So you were at the Federalist before
03:16
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
03:17
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And then you moved here Mhmm. After being there for how long?
03:20
Logan Washburn
I was just there for the first year of work after college.
03:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. Got you.
03:24
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
03:25
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And what is it what's the cultural difference? What are you allowed or disallowed Yeah. In doing within this role versus what you've So done
03:37
Logan Washburn
before, it was much more like commentary journalism and they would let you some investigative pieces and it's a great team there. Molly Hemingway is the editor in chief and Sean Davis. They're great like mentor type figures.
03:50
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
03:51
Logan Washburn
And so I I loved it. It helped me learn to write opinion pieces much better but in college and in all of my other experiences I had really grown to love like local news. And so getting to come here to a city I love Mhmm. And actually practice that has been a lot of fun.
04:10
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
At The Federalist, you commented on how it was there, your great mentors. Can you elaborate a little bit about how it's different working at Dallas Express?
04:19
Logan Washburn
Yeah. Absolutely. So there are great mentors here as well. Mhmm. But just in different ways.
04:25
Logan Washburn
They have experience in local politics, local news, local things that you wouldn't have any idea about from the national level. And so you get a more detailed look at some of these issues. And these I mean public transit is probably not going to make national news anytime soon because Right. Who's going to click on a story about that until you realize what is all going on behind the scenes and there's a lot of drama, there's a lot of money Corruption. Going back and forth.
04:55
Logan Washburn
Corruption.
04:55
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. It's corruption. And Mhmm. While public transportation is not sexy. Yeah.
05:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I hate to say it, corruption kickbacks
05:03
Logan Washburn
Right.
05:04
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's sexy. Yeah. Because people wanna know, okay, how is my daily life being impacted by these unethical actions and these persons? And so for me, that is something I want to know about. I hope other people want that knowledge as well.
05:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. Yeah. So it's different in that respect.
05:27
Logan Washburn
Cool. It is.
05:28
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. And so you are now living in the suburbs. Mhmm. Right? So you're not a Dallas site right now.
05:35
Logan Washburn
Not Dallas itself.
05:36
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Do you ever use public transportation yourself?
05:40
Logan Washburn
No I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Which I mean I should though for writing so much about it. A great point.
05:46
Logan Washburn
And I've heard plenty of stories from people that have written on Dart and they say it was great. It got me where I needed to go. No problems. But then you other you talk to other people also and they have some really interesting things to say.
05:59
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. I'm just gonna reference my notes here for a second because you have become the go to resource at Dallas Express for all things relating to Dart. So, there are passionate arguments both for and against Dart funding. From your perspective, what are the strongest cases being made on each side?
06:17
Logan Washburn
Yeah. So, I think that a really helpful way to look at this is how Dart was intended and how Dart is now.
06:26
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
06:27
Logan Washburn
So the initial proponents of Dart when they established it back in the the nineteen eighties Mhmm. Seventies. They initially said, look this is gonna be great for everyone. More public transit means more jobs. It's gonna connect people to where they need to go.
06:46
Logan Washburn
People who maybe don't have a car or a lower income like if you need to get somewhere you've got to have a way to do that. And it was initially supposed to be a very small staff, 25 people. It was supposed to fund itself through the fairs collected. Mhmm. But now you look at it and it's expanded a lot which isn't necessarily bad.
07:08
Logan Washburn
But at the same time, that's brought a lot of safety concerns. You've got crime. And just from a funding perspective, a lot of people are concerned because it doesn't fund itself with fairs anymore.
07:21
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
07:21
Logan Washburn
It's now pretty much just federal funding and it's funded with sales tax revenue from all of the member cities. Mhmm. So they have to give I think it's one or two percent of every dollar collected
07:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
to And
07:40
Logan Washburn
so it's essentially become a huge taxpayer funded entity
07:46
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
07:46
Logan Washburn
That has grown way beyond what it was supposed to do. And at the same time they are billions in debt.
07:53
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right. I've spoken with Jeff Leach. Mhmm. Have you had the opportunity to speak with him at all?
07:59
Logan Washburn
I haven't but I actually reached out to him today about that thing.
08:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. Oh. Yeah. What did you reach out to him about? So If you don't mind sharing.
08:07
Logan Washburn
Yeah. Yeah. So we had a recent story, I'm sure you've seen it about Dart giving its executives 7 So, it's 27,000. Yes. From 2023 to 2024.
08:19
Logan Washburn
Mhmm. And meanwhile in September they just made all these service cuts saying they didn't have enough funding. Mhmm. And and that is true. But essentially what he said, he saw our article and reacted on Twitter X.
08:35
Logan Washburn
Okay.
08:35
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I don't
08:35
Logan Washburn
know what you'd call it.
08:36
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. X, yeah.
08:38
Logan Washburn
Yeah. On X. And he pretty much said we shouldn't allow taxpayer dollars to go toward bonuses for executives of these transit agencies.
08:48
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
08:48
Logan Washburn
And then representative Mitch Little also responded to that saying he would be one of the first names to co sponsor the bill. And Care Mendelson also was expressing support for that in the comments. Mhmm. So people are picking up on this.
09:02
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Oh yeah.
09:03
Logan Washburn
So I'm reaching out to him because we have even more info about Dart in a story that's coming out soon probably by the time this podcast is out. Got you. That the problem is much much worse. They've spent much more money and so I'm reaching out to him to see if he'll speak with us about that and same with That's representative
09:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
terrific because I actually wanna call him and see if he'll join on this show pertaining to this particular episode. Yeah. Because as a member city directly north of Dallas, I mean he has a lot to say. Just in the few moments that I spent with him at the Capitol in Austin, he was like, you contact me. Because it's harmful.
09:51
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
The spending is harmful. I understand that idealistically and originally it was intended to help. And I do see the pros. But you've touched upon some of the pros for public transportation in that second question I asked. What are some of the cons at this point besides the obvious?
10:14
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Oh yeah. But just list it if Definitely. You So
10:18
Logan Washburn
one thing that I didn't initially think much about Mhmm. That has been a real issue for a lot of mayors like in Farmers Branch, Carrollton, Plano is the fact that DART lines essentially don't police fairs which means that you know, sometimes they do but sometimes people can get on get off Mhmm. As they please. And that means that homeless people in Dallas, if they want to be in the AC, you know, they need shelter and so they're going to go where they can get it which means sometimes hopping on a dart line that will take them to Carrollton Farmers Branch or Plano. Mhmm.
10:51
Logan Washburn
And at the end of the day, that's where the trains stop and, you know, they they can't just stay there overnight. So local police, dart police have to go on and they kind of sweep people off the trains. Mhmm. But what that does is create a constant stream of people from Dallas to the suburbs. Mhmm.
11:08
Logan Washburn
And then suddenly they're left there without the services that they could have in Dallas like the bridge. Mhmm. You know, they don't have these overnight shelters. They don't have addiction services there. And so these cities are suddenly getting influxes of homeless people even though they're doing well economically.
11:26
Logan Washburn
They have great public safety and they don't know what to do about it. So that's become a constant concern. As well as just the fact that on the funding angle you touched on that. A lot of these cities are putting in like millions more than they are getting in return. Plano is probably one of the most egregious examples of this.
11:51
Logan Washburn
It's putting in tens of millions of dollars more than it's getting back in services.
11:59
Logan Washburn
So from a taxpayer perspective they're struggling to justify this to their citizens.
12:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
12:04
Logan Washburn
Meanwhile Dallas is putting in less than it is getting back in services. Mhmm. Meanwhile Dallas has a monopoly essentially on the dart board.
12:14
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
12:15
Logan Washburn
And so it yeah. Yeah.
12:16
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
We're gonna talk about that because that DART board is is beyond frustrating. Mhmm. But so back to one of the points that we discussed earlier, how $747,000 in bonuses was reportedly paid to the DART executives right before they made a whole bunch of these cuts and fares were increased. Can you walk us through in a really simple way what it is that you uncovered and has DART responded to or disputed those claims?
12:48
Logan Washburn
Yeah. So essentially what we did is we took the list of executives on DART's public website Mhmm. Sent it to DART and said, we're submitting a public records request for the bonuses paid to these executives. Mhmm. And so they got back to us with a list of officials, you know names and bonuses that they paid to them.
13:12
Logan Washburn
And $747,000 is a huge number but, the way that this plays out is not just that there are a couple people getting these huge payouts. It's the fact that, you have like 25 ish executives on that list who are each getting anywhere from like 10 to 20 to to even more Yeah. Thousand dollars in bonuses every year. And the highest paid ones out of those were getting like 60 ish thousand dollars in bonuses within the those two years. So that's sizable, know.
13:48
Logan Washburn
That's more than a lot of people would make in one year.
13:52
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
For sure.
13:53
Logan Washburn
And so that was just the beginning of what we uncovered. Is it good if I go into
13:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Oh yeah. Okay. Please.
13:59
Logan Washburn
So by the time this podcast comes out Mhmm. This article will be up. Mhmm. But today I'm planning to file it. We have obtained another document that shows an even more comprehensive list of executive staff members.
14:15
Logan Washburn
So there are more names than they gave us.
14:18
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
There
14:19
Logan Washburn
are many more executives. And from 2020 to 2024, that number has just grown. So, they started with 47 executives in 2020 and now in 2024 it was 74 executives.
14:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So, you're telling me that that figure 747,000 was divided amongst more people?
14:44
Logan Washburn
Yeah. So that was divided
14:46
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So there wasn't an increased dollar amount?
14:49
Logan Washburn
So initially it was just divided among those 25 executives.
14:54
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got you.
14:55
Logan Washburn
And so for each of them it wasn't a ton of money but it adds up to a lot.
15:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
15:01
Logan Washburn
Then we discovered that there were actually a lot more executives than they gave us on that list. So, that number is gonna be higher and from Yeah.
15:11
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Of the figures. So, it's more than 747,000. Yeah. So, they purposefully withheld this?
15:17
Logan Washburn
I think so or they they probably took it to me and oh only the names on this website not all these other VPs and positions we have. So, yeah. So, from '20 This '20
15:31
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
is juicy.
15:31
Logan Washburn
To 2024, this is where it gets good. They paid $2,400,000 in bonuses
15:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
What? Executives. $2,400,000.
15:45
Logan Washburn
It grew every year since 2020. It started it grew to 400,000 ish in '21. Then I believe 500,000 in '22, then 600,000 and in 2024 it was 800,000 total.
16:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I'm sorry. My eyes are watering. I'm irate.
16:07
Logan Washburn
That's crazy. I'm pissed. Yeah. And the only way I got this is because someone saw our initial story and said, hey I've got this document that shows the problem is worse than you guys think. So Wow.
16:22
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
16:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Wow. Okay. So this is this is great. This is great and excellent work.
16:28
Logan Washburn
Thank you.
16:29
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Because I become so frustrated. Just yesterday, I was at Park House and you know there was the whole conversation about well okay, Dallas Morning News has I don't know 100,000 subscribers. And I'm like, great. We're up here at the 400 to 500,000 range. And so we're at a point where people cannot state that the Dallas Express is not credible.
17:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
They may not agree with how things are always reported but you are uncovering and reporting stories that no other media outlet is reporting in the city.
17:12
Logan Washburn
It's been so exciting because when no one else is willing to look into these things Yes. Suddenly everyone involved is screaming from the rooftop. Of course. Please someone like uncover this. We've been dealing And with it for so we are the first ones to uncover a lot of this stuff.
17:29
Logan Washburn
The the payment disparities as well, we were some of the first to get that document in terms of the the payments to DART and services provided. Yeah.
17:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And also I know that you wrote about the DART chair. So in one of your July articles, think you released something saying that the DART chair, Gary Slagle's letter to suburban mayors offering GMP funding. So that's the guaranteed maximum price That's GMP funding is that what you're relating to?
18:00
Logan Washburn
It's called the General Mobility Fund.
18:02
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Oh. I was thinking
18:04
Logan Washburn
construction General Mobility Fund. Program.
18:06
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. Their Mobility Fund. Yeah. Got it. So, they offered GMP funding for the mobility.
18:12
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Uh-huh. Okay.
18:13
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
18:13
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So, if they drop support for reform legislation but you reached out to all 15 board members Mhmm. And none responded? No. Have you received any updates since then?
18:24
Logan Washburn
Let's see. I I guess the only updates in the stories are the ones with some of the bonuses. But yeah, so do you want me to walk you through kind of just how that whole GM
18:37
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yes. Yes.
18:38
Logan Washburn
Alright. Alright. So, these member cities saw the disparities between the amount of money they were paying into DART and the services they're getting back.
18:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay.
18:47
Logan Washburn
And so, you know, they are pursuing all these other options. Earlier this year they went to the state legislature basically saying, what if you passed a law allowing us to give DART only part of that sales tax revenue and we can just divert it somewhere else
19:04
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
19:04
Logan Washburn
That we think will be more helpful. DART did not like this. They referred
19:08
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
to
19:08
Logan Washburn
it as DART killer legislation Yeah. You know, saying that this would definitively take away their funding. And there was another bill to reform the way the DART board operated essentially giving more weight to all the cities. Alright. So we've got that setting the stage.
19:26
Logan Washburn
People are unhappy and frustrated. These cities don't feel like they're getting enough back. So Gary Slagle and the DART Board offer what they say at the time was a compromise through the general mobility program
19:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
19:40
Logan Washburn
Giving them a portion of that revenue back. And so they ended up taking a 42 to $43,000,000, chunk of their revenue that they were gonna use. They're gonna send it back to the cities to try to make them happy.
19:56
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got it.
19:57
Logan Washburn
And that is why we have all the service cuts. Yeah. Right? So Yeah. He sends it back and the city is still think, well this isn't sustainable.
20:07
Logan Washburn
We need we still need these reforms. So they're like, thanks but we're still gonna keep pursuing this.
20:13
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
20:15
Logan Washburn
And so, what Gary Slagle sends out in July was a letter saying, hey, in order for you to receive this funding, I want you to promise you will drop all this reform legislation against DART.
20:29
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got you.
20:30
Logan Washburn
And so that's where the kickbacks come in. Get this money or Mhmm. Get this money and drop the reforms or I'm not gonna give you the money. And so at the time the mayors felt totally betrayed. This was pitched as a compromise.
20:46
Logan Washburn
Yeah. And one of the mayors referred to it as a poison pill Yeah. For the cities. Mhmm. It's like all of a sudden this is held over our heads.
20:54
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Is this on X anywhere?
20:55
Logan Washburn
Let's see. I I believe so. Somewhere Dallas Express put it out. Yeah. I don't know how much traction it's gotten.
21:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got you.
21:03
Logan Washburn
But it's it's a pretty big deal.
21:05
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
It's huge deal. Yeah. It's such a waste. Yeah. I mean it's corruption at its core.
21:13
Logan Washburn
And everyone's panicked about these DART funding cuts and the service cuts and you know people don't want to lose services they count on. But where all the local media outlets have been leaving it is that, you know, the city's per pursued reforms and now DART's losing money.
21:29
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
21:30
Logan Washburn
But they're not bothering to look into the fact that DART did it to itself Yeah. In order to get the cities to drop reforms.
21:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So given your findings, what do you believe would be a minimal set of reforms? Yeah. That would a, restore like public trust in DART and b, provide services or shut it down entirely if you think that it's not Yeah. Even worth discussing. Like what what do you Yeah.
22:04
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Where do you stand on that opinion? Yeah.
22:07
Logan Washburn
So I haven't taken a decisive stance but I have heard some helpful ideas thrown around Mhmm. Which, you know, some of those reform legislations were interesting, right? If you allow cities to take some of their funding Yep. And send it elsewhere
22:22
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
22:23
Logan Washburn
Then that creates accountability.
22:24
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
22:25
Logan Washburn
Because even the DART board, they have certain members that do push for accountability but it's hard for them to get a majority of a voice and it's hard for the DART's own board to even hold its bureaucracy accountable.
22:39
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
22:40
Logan Washburn
So they need some checks and balances to make sure that they kinda crack down on things. We also need to take a look at how they organize the board because currently the way it works is Dallas has a majority on the board like tons of representatives for Dallas. Meanwhile, you have cities like Farmers Branch and I believe Carrollton or Plano. But multiple of these suburbs are forced to share a single representative. So it's not even like these constituents have a representative on the board.
23:15
Logan Washburn
These two cities have to come together to push their representative
23:18
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Mhmm.
23:19
Logan Washburn
To do one thing in the sea of people from Dallas. Yeah. And so they say that, you know, they feel it disenfranchises their citizens. Then you also have the bonus issue which, you know, people are discussing prohibiting tax dollars from going to these bonuses which again I won't say definitively whether I think these are good ideas because I try
23:43
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
to Sure of course.
23:44
Logan Washburn
Keep opinions Maintain
23:45
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
a neutral voice as a journalist.
23:47
Logan Washburn
Enter it. Yeah.
23:48
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
No opinions.
23:49
Logan Washburn
Yeah yeah.
23:50
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
But yeah. Fair enough. Okay. Okay. And when you reported that the Dart Chair offered kickbacks to suburban mayors, do you have direct correspondence?
24:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. You do.
24:04
Logan Washburn
Yeah. There was a letter that we linked to in that article.
24:07
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Oh I missed that.
24:09
Logan Washburn
Oh you did. Okay.
24:10
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I did not see it. There was an actual letter.
24:12
Logan Washburn
If you go in that article it should be one of the first hyperlinks in there where it talks about the July letter from Slagle. Got you. You click on it and it's under our domain we have the letter published. He's very clear about what he wants. He says, I want you to clarify your position on this by committing not to pursue any other reforms.
24:34
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And what has been done after this? Has anyone do people pay attention?
24:37
Logan Washburn
I mean, the only people that pay attention are the people involved. So the member cities
24:44
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. Local general population they're not following this.
24:47
Logan Washburn
Like I don't ride DART. I don't you know, I don't know much about this. I don't care about public transit and
24:53
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
But it's crazy because that money that they're paying Mhmm. Anytime they're out
24:59
Mitch Little
Yeah.
25:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Their money Yeah. Could be spent on potholes on Mhmm. Police.
25:05
Logan Washburn
Yeah.
25:05
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
On paying the police Mhmm. What they're supposed to be paid.
25:09
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I mean,
25:09
Logan Washburn
It's the money It's infuriating. On any sales. They get a chunk of that. And so we've got to start asking the questions of what are they doing Yep. With the money we spend.
25:21
Logan Washburn
That has a, you know, people move here for the economy
25:24
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
25:25
Logan Washburn
And for business and so when you do these transactions like
25:29
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And that's not even touching upon the crime. No. I mean the crime on Dart. Can you Yeah. Elaborate a little bit on what you've covered in that respect?
25:36
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. It's crazy.
25:37
Logan Washburn
So there are oh my gosh. So this summer we've seen crime escalate on Dart. They will say that crime has been dropping which is not true according to the reports. Yep. It only drops if you omit the statistics about drug crime.
25:56
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
25:56
Logan Washburn
It's like if you count all the crime though, it's going up.
26:00
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
26:02
Logan Washburn
And so recently we had what was it? I'm gonna try to go in chronological order but I'll just sort of list some of the incidents. Mhmm. So in Richardson earlier this summer a man stabbed another man near a dart station. Mhmm.
26:17
Logan Washburn
He hopped on the dart train, took off, police found him 12 miles away at another dart station a few hours later.
26:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah yeah yeah.
26:24
Logan Washburn
I remember Yeah. So there's that. And then we had another dead body was found at a dart station in Garland, I believe, which, you know, drugs, homelessness, it kind of comes with it. Yeah. I'm not sure what the case was in this instance but it was very sad.
26:45
Logan Washburn
Then we had in the October or within the same week at the beginning of the month, there were two deadly shootings on Dar in Dallas.
26:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
26:59
Logan Washburn
And typically you hear about these instances and they're spread out more but the fact that they're getting closer together is more concerning.
27:06
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
27:07
Logan Washburn
There was one guy he was the manager at a restaurant, Poe Melvin's in Irving. Mhmm. He was just getting back from celebrating his birthday.
27:16
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I
27:16
Logan Washburn
know. Got into some sort of altercation and was shot and killed. And then there's another individual less than a week later. So it's potential it's getting worse. And when you see the actual crime statistics in their quarterly reports, it shows that since January crime has been going up on DART.
27:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And then, that doesn't even account for the the DART bus that ran into this building.
27:44
Logan Washburn
Yeah. I was going to say they Yeah. This summer we had another instance like that where a bus just ran straight up the hill at a DART station in Dallas. The pictures were Oh
27:56
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I that.
27:57
Logan Washburn
Oh you can
27:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
look I missed that.
27:58
Logan Washburn
I wanna say Dallas, Texas TV that
28:02
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Got you. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
28:03
Logan Washburn
They they put up a video. But yeah, was it 2023 when a Dart bus Yeah. They literally on the street outside of this building Mhmm. I'm not sure how they did it because it looks like they were they went into oncoming traffic
28:17
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I know.
28:18
Logan Washburn
Into the building.
28:18
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I know.
28:19
Logan Washburn
But yeah, they crashed right into the side of the building here and caused some pretty serious damage. The concrete was everywhere. Yeah. Like firefighters had to come in and you know take care of people. It was crazy.
28:33
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
This is what I don't understand. Yeah. I mean who who is held accountable for that?
28:37
Logan Washburn
Yeah. No, exactly. Does
28:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
DART pay for that?
28:40
Logan Washburn
I don't know. Like the damages?
28:42
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
28:42
Logan Washburn
You would hope so. Right? Right? I mean if they pay through it, if they pay for it though it's going be through our tax dollars.
28:48
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I
28:48
Logan Washburn
know. And they've got all this debt. Yep. Another thing that could potentially be leading to some of these crashes which again it's not confirmed but it's been a consistent issue that even some other outlets have picked up on. The fact that they don't do consistent maintenance to a lot of these buses.
29:06
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
29:07
Logan Washburn
They recently got new ones finally.
29:09
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
29:10
Logan Washburn
For a long time there, their buses were just wearing out on the streets. Mhmm. These drivers were reporting these crazy mechanical issues like breakdowns in the middle of the road.
29:19
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah.
29:19
Logan Washburn
Like have trouble steering, you know, just really bad environment on the inside of the bus even. Yeah. So they basically had been wearing out and so mechanical issues also happened with that.
29:33
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
At this point, do you foresee any type of changes to A, the board itself and to leadership there at the organization?
29:47
Logan Washburn
Let's see.
29:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
After all of your uncovered
29:50
Logan Washburn
material. I think that depends on what people do next.
29:54
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
By people who?
29:55
Logan Washburn
Local officials, locally and state officials. Yep. Right? DART has already shown that they're very afraid of some of these reforms passing in the state which, you know, a lot of local leaders in cities like Plano have actually been directly involved in lobbying for that stuff to legislature. But so you've got those reform efforts that we had talked about earlier.
30:21
Logan Washburn
Yeah. You also have the fact that in 2026 is a window to opt out of DART. For Plano, Irving and these cities they've kind of put it out there that they might consider this. And what that would do is send the issue to the voters to let them decide, do you think DART's serving you well? Do you want us to do our own transit thing?
30:41
Logan Washburn
Because it doesn't mean eliminating DART Of course. Yeah. They've they've floated starting their own local transit agencies.
30:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's
30:48
Logan Washburn
right. And so we'll have to see what happens.
30:50
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Logan, I can't thank you enough. Thank you for your excellent work. For being relentless in the pursuit of truth because it's people like you who are actually making a difference in our city.
31:03
Logan Washburn
Thank you.
31:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And yes, in many, many areas. So hopefully we can work to stop the criminality of it all. And again, you don't have to use that word. I know you don't. I do.
31:14
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I believe it's criminal that this money is not being stewarded in a responsible way. Thank you.
31:23
Logan Washburn
Thank you.
31:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
First, I would just want to understand your why. What prompted you to want to even run? Are running right now?
31:30
Mitch Little
Yeah. Oh, we're running. Yeah. Okay, good.
31:33
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. What prompted me From the lumbar support on.
31:36
Mitch Little
Yeah, good. Prompted me to
31:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
we're just talking.
31:41
Mitch Little
Want to run? Yeah. I just got mad. I represented the attorney general in his impeachment proceeding.
31:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I know.
31:47
Mitch Little
And I got home from that experience and just realized I didn't think I was being represented well. And a lot of people, I think, felt that way last primary season. So I decided to make a run at it. It was extremely disruptive to family and professional life, but I'm so glad that I did. When I finally got down to Austin in January, I spent the first sixty days going, I do not belong here.
32:16
Mitch Little
This has been a huge waste of time. And then, when we started getting into committees and hearing bills, I started realizing that I could make a difference.
32:25
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
You glad that I did certainly have. I mean, from before you running up to now, I just appreciate your voice that you persist to use every single day. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, think you're terrific. And I know today I asked you to come on specifically relating to Dart.
32:46
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. And I'm not sure if you saw, Shannon. Another article came out on the twenty ninth?
32:53
Mitch Little
I saw something from Express yesterday. Yeah.
32:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yeah. And it's
32:58
Mitch Little
It's mind boggling. In fact, I think I reposted it.
33:01
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yes. And so I thank you for that. Because it's the Plano versus DART.
33:07
Mitch Little
Yeah. I think I saw if I'm remembering correctly, Sarah, I think Plano has put in a 109,000,000 and got 44,000,000 back in service. Exactly. Something like that?
33:17
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yes.
33:18
Mitch Little
This came up during the session, legislative session as you know. Yeah. And it's very contentious because DART works very hard to sustain itself and tries to operate independent of the rules that all of us in our businesses face. Does this make sense? Is this actually producing a public good at a reasonable price?
33:43
Mitch Little
Those seem to be irrelevant considerations.
33:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And sadly, I mean for Plano, it's a very poor business decision to be part of DART.
33:53
Mitch Little
Yeah, but they're not alone. I mean Carrollton and Irving, they're all in the same situation.
33:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's exactly where I'm going. So you actually serve on the committees, the Transportation Committees and Criminal Jurisprudence, right?
34:05
Mitch Little
Yes, ma'am.
34:06
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And so thank you for that service.
34:09
Logan Washburn
Sure.
34:09
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Can you do me a favor and describe to our viewers and listeners what your district looks like? So Denton, Lewisville, just create a map visually.
34:19
Mitch Little
Yeah. Let me give you let me give you the best explanation I can give you. So, Denton County, you're thinking like Denton, oh man, so far. Well, Denton County runs right up against Dallas County. So, it's I have a piece of Carrollton which I share with Ben Bumgarner and my district stretches from the farthest west sliver of Plano at Midway Road, So if you can imagine where Midway Road is and goes all the way west out past Texas Motor Speedway.
34:50
Mitch Little
So it stretches I pick up Carrollton, Lewisville, Highland Village, North Flower Mound, Bartonville, Double Oak, Argyle, Justin North Lake. So, it's a strip.
35:06
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
It's huge.
35:06
Mitch Little
Yeah. It's like this strip that runs on the southernmost part of Denton County.
35:10
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah. Sure. Just because it's, you know, I want people to have some type of map in their brain
35:17
Mitch Little
as Yes, a exactly. List
35:20
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So John Munns is not Yes. Munns, a Plano mayor, is displeased, I believe, to say the least Yeah. About DART. Can you talk to us about your district's representation with respect to DART?
35:42
Mitch Little
Yeah, sure. So, I get I touch on it peripherally. So, most of my district is covered by what's called the Denton County Transit Authority, DCTA. But, DART, I touch on because I represent parts of Carrollton and of Plano. I think that's why it comes up the most.
36:00
Mitch Little
My district probably doesn't get a lot of meaningful representation from Dart or meaningful service from Dart, okay? So just start from that baseline. The reason I'm interested is because the mayors of those cities are very interested and they were very involved during the legislative session coming and talking to the transportation committee about trying to right size this thing. And when I say right size, I mean try to make Plano and Carrollton's contribution commensurate with the service that they receive. Because when DART was formed and they had this vision of what it would be in the future, I think they imagined that Plano and Carrollton would be getting a lot more service in exchange for what they're contributing but it hasn't worked out that way.
36:48
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I know. It's really heartbreaking, at least for me. We're not we don't live in Dallas County, but there's significant investment in Dallas to us, my husband, myself, the organizations that make this a very meaningful part of our lives, conversationally, everything. So taxpayers at these respective cities who are part of DART, they are, unbeknownst to them probably, forking over a lot of money and probably opting out of some goods or services that could otherwise have more money applied to them.
37:39
Mitch Little
Yeah. Let me put this on the bottom shelf for people that listen to your show. I want you to imagine that you go to dinner with 10 of your friends and you get a side salad and everybody else at the table orders a 24 ounce porterhouse, dessert, wine, and the bill comes and you get ready to pay your bill and they go, Why don't we just split it? And you're like, Oh, no. What have I gotten myself into?
38:06
Mitch Little
Well, that's the situation in which Plano and Carrollton find themselves is they're getting very little service in exchange for this massive contribution. And the rate at which they contribute to Dart is really controlled by statute, etcetera, and the contractual relationship that happened when Dart was formed. Not only that, Sarah, but Dart itself has borrowed a lot of money and Plano, Carrollton, Irving, all these other cities that are not getting a lot of service, they are on the debt hook because all those debt instruments that Dart used to borrow are essentially guaranteed by the full faith and credit of all of those cities and towns that are involved in it. So, in Plano, you got buses that are running around empty, you got trains that aren't safe and Plano residents are paying a heck of a lot of money for it. Meanwhile, they're not able to contribute that money to their streets, public safety, etcetera.
39:03
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Exactly. So thank you for that recap. I sat down with Logan Washburn before you and he's gonna be featured as part of this interview. He's our staff writer at Dallas Express who has done a fantastic job of covering DART. No one else is covering the crime relating to DART.
39:22
Mitch Little
They don't wanna be covered And I don't think the Dallas Morning News wants to cover it because it's not a good optic, honestly, on DART. Hey, this is actually a dangerous place to ride at times.
39:37
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
44% crime spike.
39:39
Mitch Little
That's kind of shocking. And you think about the people that are getting on public transit, oftentimes these are people who are already vulnerable.
39:48
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
39:48
Mitch Little
Okay, they're either economically vulnerable, they have a hard time getting around on their own, etc. And now they're stuck with an option that's really not safe.
39:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Precisely and to the point of the simple fact that debt has been incurred by DART, they paid 2,400,000 worth of bonuses to execs, which is what Logan went into some good detail about. Okay. What would it look like if Plano, Carrollton, if they opted out of Dart, what would that look like to Dart itself, the revenue model, and perhaps Dallas?
40:31
Mitch Little
Yeah. So it's interesting. It depends on who you ask, Sarah.
40:35
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's why I'm asking you.
40:36
Mitch Little
The Dart perspective, they're like, this is Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave. Part of the problem is I believe as a lawyer looking at the debt that they have that we've already talked about, those debt instruments I don't think necessarily allow for or accommodate Plano and Carrollton and Irving leaving that system. Yet, Plano has a mechanism to leave. They need to put it on the ballot.
41:08
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
On November 5, yep.
41:09
Mitch Little
There needs to be a public referendum and then the public can decide whether they leave. Frankly, that has been the threat. In my interactions with John Munns and Steve Babic and other mayors who are in DART, they've been firm but they haven't been hostile to DART meaning, hey, can we just rearrange the deal? Like, we don't have to all the way leave Dart, let's right size this for the people of Plano and Carrollton and make our contribution commensurate with the level of service that we receive and Dart goes, No. And why do they go, No, we don't want to do that.
41:51
Mitch Little
One, they feel like they have leverage because everybody's on the hook for debt. And two, if they do that, if they right size it, Dallas' contribution is going to be massively increased and they won't have money to spend on all the other junk that they want to spend money on.
42:07
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So, is there any situation, any alternative in which Dart goes belly up? With any type of pull out, meaningful pull out and restructuring I don't Plano and Carrollton?
42:23
Mitch Little
Here's to be honest, I don't know enough about their financial wherewithal to say if they're a going concern, if those if those towns or those cities move out of the system. I'd have to look at their books a lot more closely and be a lot more educated about that before I could say that. I think it sure is an open question. Can they make their debt obligations and continue as a going concern without those cities? I just don't know the answer to that, Sarah, but maybe it would cause them to think twice about paying millions of dollars in bonuses for an entity that is not returning good value to everyone.
42:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right. And could you elaborate on who has made those decisions to pay out bonuses?
43:08
Mitch Little
I assume it's the dart board. I assume it's the dart board. I mean, I wrong about that? You tell me.
43:14
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I believe that the dart board was not brought up to speed on these respective bonuses from what I've been told. I will fact check that.
43:25
Mitch Little
That's pretty shocking if that's true. I'll just say that it wouldn't be the first government board that I've heard of that wasn't necessarily tuned in to what they were being asked to oversee or do. So
43:38
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And again, I hope I'm wrong. I hope that two sources that I'm thinking of right now are incorrect.
43:46
Mitch Little
Somebody should just ask them. Did the board know? Correct. Yeah.
43:49
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
On November 5, there is a special session at 5PM to consider whether to call
43:57
Mitch Little
In Plano, right?
43:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yes. A special election from what I understand. And that was according to a very recent press release statement.
44:05
Mitch Little
Well, there are untold millions of dollars on the line in this decision. And what was fascinating to me, Sarah, is So this was my first legislative session, you know that. The DART bill or the DART topic came up in the transportation committee, what was fascinating was DART actually hoisted up a bunch of UTD students and a bunch of other local people. They I assume drove them down to the capital to testify about how Dart was existential. Truly, without Dart, their lives would be broken and destroyed.
44:46
Mitch Little
And I just kind of sat there with amazement as person after person after person testified about how importantDART was. I'm like, Gosh, where did they get these people? And none of them look like they ride DART. I mean, maybe they do, but sometimes when you're on committee in the legislature, it's difficult to discern between propaganda and reality. And there's going to be a lot of propaganda around this decision There for
45:20
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
will be. And since you are actually on the transportation committee, what is your level of responsibility with respect to everything that moves forward? During the legislative session,
45:34
Mitch Little
we heard bills that touched on transportation all over the state. And so the idea is that if we're going to modify the law, we need to we need to hear from the people that are affected and that's what happens. Bills come through committee that are potentially going to change the laws whether locally or statewide on topics involving transportation. For example, we heard bills related to modifying the relationship of Houston and the Harris County Toll Road Authority, which is a huge and similar problem. But Dart Night went very late when I believe it was Matt Shaheen brought the bill on behalf of Plano trying to right size the relationship between Plano and Dart And it's our job as the committee to consider the effects on the community of modifying that relationship or modifying the law in a way that will meaningfully impact it.
46:25
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
How are you considering, if you're able to discuss this, how are you considering any modification?
46:33
Mitch Little
Yeah, what was amazing is we heard all that testimony and that bill right sizing the relationship never got to the floor. So I want you to think about all of the politicians and all of the special interests that are involved in the DART issue. So you have all the Dallas County representatives, all Democrats except for a couple that touch Dallas County. You have the peripheral representatives, some of whom are Democrat but mostly Republican. And you have the major significant political interests of groups like DART and the people who are involved in lending money to DART, etc.
47:17
Mitch Little
So this maelstrom of politicians and special interests around the issue resulted in bill Nip Sheehan's bill never really getting to the floor. So, the legislature did not impact this, didn't impact the relationship between Plano and Dart this time. Maybe it will next time, but the threat that I could see looming while we were in the committee was, we'll just pull out. And now, we seem to be moving in that direction. And I don't know, maybe we'll know more in November about that.
47:53
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Okay. Because, yeah, at this point, I mean, I've been following this very closely. Logan, much more so. But I am waiting to see how this affects everyone. Everyone.
48:13
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Dallas especially. I mean Dallas especially. Because with a potential revenue loss of, I don't know, let's let's call it $75,000,000
48:23
Mitch Little
Yeah.
48:24
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Right from Plano's perspective.
48:26
Mitch Little
How can it exist?
48:28
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
I do not understand how it can exist. And I delved into the financials. That's kind of my forte, so to speak, on And New Year's I do not understand how this service can continue to be provided.
48:42
Mitch Little
Well, Sarah, here's the great thing. Since it's subsidized by government, it doesn't have to make sense to you and me, does it?
48:47
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Well, no, doesn't unfortunately.
48:48
Mitch Little
Here's the great thing, I will give you an example, I wrestle with the same thing in Denton County, our Denton County Transit Authority, comparing what our towns in Denton County contribute to DCTA vice what services they receive. And when those organizations come to us as legislators, what they try to do is come into our office and say, Well, you don't really understand. You don't really understand. It's not that simple. You can't just compare contributions versus services.
49:19
Mitch Little
Look at all the people that have an opportunity to come to your town through mass transit and they're stopping at stores, they're having lunches, so there's economic upsweep as a result of that that you can't measure, you can't see. Sometimes it just is that simple. We should be looking at what am I as Plano or I as Carrollton or Irving getting out of the deal compared to what I'm contributing? And these government subsidized entities really, they resist that analysis.
49:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Extremely so. Yeah. And it's infuriating to me because if you're following at all any of the pay discrepancy from one of the propositions, Proposition U that was passed last year Yes. In November. Right?
50:12
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
So you're seeing how there is a lot of back and forth that's still happening to ensure commensurate pay for police at about the $85,000 mark in Dallas. And when I see at least the potential revenue loss that's going to come forth from our neighboring cities, whom I support, moving in that direction of right equitable return on their respective investment. Dallas is going to be in an even bigger pickle. And again, I'm ready to sit here and call them to account. The elected leaders of DART, Dallas City Council doesn't mean that it's going to matter much, but I'm infuriated because crime continues to go up, as you know, until they begin to make our police, I guess, a priority, their pay a priority.
51:10
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Potholes, city services that are critical are just being neglected
51:17
Mitch Little
I in my think this issue is a litmus test for what you care about.
51:24
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's
51:24
Mitch Little
right. And do you care about things that work? Do you care about streets that work? Do you care about making sure that our streets are safe? The fascinating thing to me, Sarah, about Dart is you look at how much money is digested by that system, and at a bare minimum, it should be safe.
51:44
Mitch Little
It doesn't have to be perfect, but at a bare minimum, for all the money that's going into the system, it should be safe and we can't even accomplish that. But DART isn't alone. The same thing happens in public transit in Austin.
51:58
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Chicago, L, the buses, buses. Mean, it's getting worse. It's not
52:03
Mitch Little
a good environment. It's not a good environment. But what's interesting to me, what's really sad about the Dallas police pay issue is I was driving back from Houston with my wife on Monday and driving back, I saw a billboard in Far North Houston advertising Plano PD jobs, Plano Police Department jobs. This is our starting salary.
52:27
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
You did.
52:28
Mitch Little
Yeah. They're working hard.
52:29
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Did sure?
52:30
Mitch Little
No, I didn't. But they're recruiting and I think the message is that's what Plano cares about and so is making sure that Plano is course. It's one of their top priorities.
52:44
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
That's right.
52:46
Mitch Little
Where you invest your time and money reflects your priorities in life, for just like for you and me.
52:51
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep. And do you have any suggestions to any of the of the city council representatives who are going to have to step up in all of the cities that are involved with DART?
53:07
Mitch Little
Make it fair. Just make it fair. And if you can't make it fair, get out of the system. That has been the I've observed about the DART issue in the legislature is Plano and Carrollton, etc, Irving, they use the legislative process as leverage to try to get DART to make the relationship fair. DART says, No, we're not going to do that.
53:36
Mitch Little
And so now we're in this standoff and these cities are going to have tough decisions to make. If it's not going to be fair to those cities, they have no choice but to pull out of the system.
53:50
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
And if you were, let's say, the Dallas City Manager, if you were in her shoes, what would you do in this situation?
54:03
Mitch Little
Yeah, emphasize the things that people care about, safety, good roads, right size some of those other systems that are not being utilized well. A lot of times, and I don't know that this happens in Dallas as much as it happens in Austin and Houston, but my suspicion is it still does to a large degree. There's a ton of spending on a social agenda and, know, let's put in kiosks downtown, let's put in bike lanes and all this other crap that you see in Austin, Houston. And the social agenda does not benefit people who expect basic city services like police, fire, streets that don't have potholes. Just get out of the social business and get back into the basics of governing.
54:56
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Yep.
54:56
Mitch Little
That's my advice.
54:57
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Precisely. And I want everyone, I pray everyone will read Mark Moses' book, which I talk about all the time, which emphasizes this particular fact very, very well, very briefly, easy read. Anyhow, I promise it would be a fast interview. It's 09:28, I think we accomplished that. Great.
55:17
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
It's And I just appreciate your candid, intelligent feedback.
55:21
Mitch Little
It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
55:23
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Thank you for your service. Yeah. Thank you.
55:24
Mitch Little
Yeah, enjoyed it.
55:25
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Alrighty. Thank you.
featuring our host.
SARAH ZUBIATE BENNETT
Venture Philanthropist, Host and Executive Producer of Let’s Talk Local, bold leader driving growth in private and social sectors.
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